Unadopted Roads and Parking Tickets
Discussion
Hello Everyone
Bit of a wierd one, want to know what you guys think.
I live round the corner from this road; when I moved in a few years ago I noticed how it was very badly potholed.
Reported it to the council through the normal means, to be told that this road is "unadopted" and not maintained by the council.
It is supposed to be maintained by the residents who live either side of it (which of course never happens)
https://goo.gl/maps/AfU3TcQ71Pr
The thing is, it also has a resident permit scheme which IS managed by the council - i've received a ticket for parking there as my permit fell off overnight!
What's the deal there - The council are happy to send me a £75 fine, but not to sort out the state of the road (and it gets a LOT of traffic!)
Is this normal, or is it an odd situation?
Bit of a wierd one, want to know what you guys think.
I live round the corner from this road; when I moved in a few years ago I noticed how it was very badly potholed.
Reported it to the council through the normal means, to be told that this road is "unadopted" and not maintained by the council.
It is supposed to be maintained by the residents who live either side of it (which of course never happens)
https://goo.gl/maps/AfU3TcQ71Pr
The thing is, it also has a resident permit scheme which IS managed by the council - i've received a ticket for parking there as my permit fell off overnight!
What's the deal there - The council are happy to send me a £75 fine, but not to sort out the state of the road (and it gets a LOT of traffic!)
Is this normal, or is it an odd situation?
Aidancky said:
i've received a ticket for parking there as my permit fell off overnight!
What's the deal there - The council are happy to send me a £75 fine, but not to sort out the state of the road (and it gets a LOT of traffic!)
Is this normal, or is it an odd situation?
Well, it may be slightly unusual, but the penalty charge would seem to be perfectly valid.What's the deal there - The council are happy to send me a £75 fine, but not to sort out the state of the road (and it gets a LOT of traffic!)
Is this normal, or is it an odd situation?
What is your problem with this? Do you feel the local Authority shouldn't issue penalty charge notices unless the road surface is well maintained?
By the way - "my permit fell off overnight" - yeah right!
The Mad Monk said:
Aidancky said:
i've received a ticket for parking there as my permit fell off overnight!
What's the deal there - The council are happy to send me a £75 fine, but not to sort out the state of the road (and it gets a LOT of traffic!)
Is this normal, or is it an odd situation?
Well, it may be slightly unusual, but the penalty charge would seem to be perfectly valid.What's the deal there - The council are happy to send me a £75 fine, but not to sort out the state of the road (and it gets a LOT of traffic!)
Is this normal, or is it an odd situation?
What is your problem with this? Do you feel the local Authority shouldn't issue penalty charge notices unless the road surface is well maintained?
By the way - "my permit fell off overnight" - yeah right!
markiii said:
I live in an unadopted private road and the council have no power over it at all
Yes they do. It's still a public highway and road rules and laws still apply. Council can enforce parking regulations and police can seize cars etc too. An unadopted road simply means that the council are not responsible for the upkeep of the road.HantsRat said:
Yes they do. It's still a public highway and road rules and laws still apply. Council can enforce parking regulations and police can seize cars etc too. An unadopted road simply means that the council are not responsible for the upkeep of the road.
road rules and laws enforced by the Police yes,I'm doubtful about the council unless you can link to the relevant legislation?
techmoan said:
MarshPhantom said:
What parking notices are around? Are there yellow lines on the unadopted road?
A big sign and the entrance saying 'Permit holders only beyond this point' Have you told them you have a permit but it wasn't on display?
There are two separate bits of legislation here:
First is the Highways Act 1980, which gives the Council powers as a HIGHWAY authority. One of those powers is to adopt and maintain roads. Under the terms of that act, a "public highway" has a precise definition, and means "a highway maintained at public expense" (i.e. adopted). Other than that, there is no difference between a "public highway") and a "highway open to the public" - the right to USE the road is the same. (this doesn't apply to private accesses etc - we are talking here about roads that the public can use).
The Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 gives the Council powers as a TRAFFIC authority and is clear in stating that those powers apply to all roads in their area - so it doesn't matter if the road is adopted or not, the council are responsible for any traffic regulations applying to it. Any parking restrictions, for example, must be signed in accordance with the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2016, and some of those signs and markings can only be placed on a road in conjunction with a Traffic Regulation Order - and only the Council can make that Order.
(Again this discounts private accesses where there is no public right of access).
So if the signs and markings don't comply with TSRGD - not enforceable.
If there is no TRO - not enforceable.
If there is a TRO and appropriate signs - enforceable
Exactly as per an adopted road.
ETA I wrote this before the OP added the bit about the "permit holders only" sign - I think that still complies, I haven't done it but I've seen it before, but I have to admit, I'm not sure.
First is the Highways Act 1980, which gives the Council powers as a HIGHWAY authority. One of those powers is to adopt and maintain roads. Under the terms of that act, a "public highway" has a precise definition, and means "a highway maintained at public expense" (i.e. adopted). Other than that, there is no difference between a "public highway") and a "highway open to the public" - the right to USE the road is the same. (this doesn't apply to private accesses etc - we are talking here about roads that the public can use).
The Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 gives the Council powers as a TRAFFIC authority and is clear in stating that those powers apply to all roads in their area - so it doesn't matter if the road is adopted or not, the council are responsible for any traffic regulations applying to it. Any parking restrictions, for example, must be signed in accordance with the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2016, and some of those signs and markings can only be placed on a road in conjunction with a Traffic Regulation Order - and only the Council can make that Order.
(Again this discounts private accesses where there is no public right of access).
So if the signs and markings don't comply with TSRGD - not enforceable.
If there is no TRO - not enforceable.
If there is a TRO and appropriate signs - enforceable
Exactly as per an adopted road.
ETA I wrote this before the OP added the bit about the "permit holders only" sign - I think that still complies, I haven't done it but I've seen it before, but I have to admit, I'm not sure.
Edited by tvrgit on Monday 11th July 09:27
If your permit actually fell off overnight, then appeal and send them a copy of your permit and explain that it fell off.
Totally believable if you do have a permit in the first place...
I have had a similar thing with a council owned gym car park. Forgot to put my permit out, got ticket, sent them a copy of the permit and they let me off but said that it would go on record and next time the fine would stand.
Totally believable if you do have a permit in the first place...
I have had a similar thing with a council owned gym car park. Forgot to put my permit out, got ticket, sent them a copy of the permit and they let me off but said that it would go on record and next time the fine would stand.
markiii said:
road rules and laws enforced by the Police yes,
I'm doubtful about the council unless you can link to the relevant legislation?
Most parking offences is most towns in the UK have been passed down to the local authority to deal with. So the council will probably deal with all parking issues on the highway in your area. Police only tend to get involved with obstruction offences. I'm doubtful about the council unless you can link to the relevant legislation?
Du1point8 said:
The Mad Monk said:
Aidancky said:
i've received a ticket for parking there as my permit fell off overnight!
What's the deal there - The council are happy to send me a £75 fine, but not to sort out the state of the road (and it gets a LOT of traffic!)
Is this normal, or is it an odd situation?
Well, it may be slightly unusual, but the penalty charge would seem to be perfectly valid.What's the deal there - The council are happy to send me a £75 fine, but not to sort out the state of the road (and it gets a LOT of traffic!)
Is this normal, or is it an odd situation?
What is your problem with this? Do you feel the local Authority shouldn't issue penalty charge notices unless the road surface is well maintained?
By the way - "my permit fell off overnight" - yeah right!
This is my understanding of the situation. You will notice that I am never dogmatic.
Adrian E said:
They may have asked, but I believe the council are under no obligation to take it on just because someone asks?
The road has to be up to an adoptable standard before the highway authority will consider adoption. Residents can't let their road fall apart then expect the tax payer to foot the bill.tvrgit said:
There are two separate bits of legislation here:
First is the Highways Act 1980, which gives the Council powers as a HIGHWAY authority. One of those powers is to adopt and maintain roads. Under the terms of that act, a "public highway" has a precise definition, and means "a highway maintained at public expense" (i.e. adopted). Other than that, there is no difference between a "public highway") and a "highway open to the public" - the right to USE the road is the same. (this doesn't apply to private accesses etc - we are talking here about roads that the public can use).
]
I have been out of the highway maintenance business for over 5 years now but, unless the Highways Act 1980 has been updated since my 1998 edition, I can find no mention of "public highway". As far as I am aware all highways are open to the public so the prefix isn't required as it is a redundantism :-)First is the Highways Act 1980, which gives the Council powers as a HIGHWAY authority. One of those powers is to adopt and maintain roads. Under the terms of that act, a "public highway" has a precise definition, and means "a highway maintained at public expense" (i.e. adopted). Other than that, there is no difference between a "public highway") and a "highway open to the public" - the right to USE the road is the same. (this doesn't apply to private accesses etc - we are talking here about roads that the public can use).
]
However, I am always ready to learn and be corrected, so can you point me to the relevant section?
stevebroad said:
tvrgit said:
There are two separate bits of legislation here:
First is the Highways Act 1980, which gives the Council powers as a HIGHWAY authority. One of those powers is to adopt and maintain roads. Under the terms of that act, a "public highway" has a precise definition, and means "a highway maintained at public expense" (i.e. adopted). Other than that, there is no difference between a "public highway") and a "highway open to the public" - the right to USE the road is the same. (this doesn't apply to private accesses etc - we are talking here about roads that the public can use).
]
I have been out of the highway maintenance business for over 5 years now but, unless the Highways Act 1980 has been updated since my 1998 edition, I can find no mention of "public highway". As far as I am aware all highways are open to the public so the prefix isn't required as it is a redundantism :-)First is the Highways Act 1980, which gives the Council powers as a HIGHWAY authority. One of those powers is to adopt and maintain roads. Under the terms of that act, a "public highway" has a precise definition, and means "a highway maintained at public expense" (i.e. adopted). Other than that, there is no difference between a "public highway") and a "highway open to the public" - the right to USE the road is the same. (this doesn't apply to private accesses etc - we are talking here about roads that the public can use).
]
However, I am always ready to learn and be corrected, so can you point me to the relevant section?
I've been out of the highway maintenance business for a lot longer than that, and that was in Scotland, where the definitions under the Act are much clearer, and a "public road" (we don't have "highways") has that precise definition. I'm not as familiar with the Highways Act, but I was sure that it said something like "public highway has the same meaning as in the Roads (Scotland) Act 1984" but that wouldn't make sense, come to think of it, if the Highways Act was in 1980, i.e. 4 years before!
In any case, the point is that traffic regulation applies to all roads, adopted or not!
tvrgit said:
You're right - a "highway" is "a road maintainable at public expense" under the Act, whereas the non-maintained roads are streets or some other term.
I've been out of the highway maintenance business for a lot longer than that, and that was in Scotland, where the definitions under the Act are much clearer, and a "public road" (we don't have "highways") has that precise definition. I'm not as familiar with the Highways Act, but I was sure that it said something like "public highway has the same meaning as in the Roads (Scotland) Act 1984" but that wouldn't make sense, come to think of it, if the Highways Act was in 1980, i.e. 4 years before!
In any case, the point is that traffic regulation applies to all roads, adopted or not!
Just being my normal pedantic self :-)I've been out of the highway maintenance business for a lot longer than that, and that was in Scotland, where the definitions under the Act are much clearer, and a "public road" (we don't have "highways") has that precise definition. I'm not as familiar with the Highways Act, but I was sure that it said something like "public highway has the same meaning as in the Roads (Scotland) Act 1984" but that wouldn't make sense, come to think of it, if the Highways Act was in 1980, i.e. 4 years before!
In any case, the point is that traffic regulation applies to all roads, adopted or not!
As long as the road isn't private :-)
Although most UK roads are publically maintained few are actually adopted. These are normally estate roads built by developers that are then offered up for adoption.
If the road is a highway maintained at public expense, then, as you say, all traffic regulations apply. However, if the highway is not maintained at public expense (what is sometimes called a private street, not to be confused with a private road), then all rules apply except for vehicle excise duty. As this was originally brought in to pay for the maintenance of roads it doesn't apply to non-publically maintainable highways.
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