Unbraked trailer

[TOPTON]

I know the rules and regs have been discussed on here many times about what can be towed and by who, but here is a different question.

I was looking to buy an 18ft speedboat with an inboard 2.0l ford pinto engine and stern drive. Unsure of the boat weight but the engine is around 150kg on its own. The boat comes with a totally unbraked (as in no handbrake neither) twin axle trailer. I assume the total weight of the trailer, boat, engine and stern drive will be well over 750kg so normally requiring a braked trailer.

Now the guy told me as the trailer was built before the regs changed in the 80's (supposedly, I don't think it is plated) then it doesn't require a braking system.

Anyone shed any light on this??????

[OverSteery]

Trailer age isn't relevant.
If the trailer has no brakes (Unbraked Trailer)the Maximum 750kg gross trailer weight or half the towing vehicle's kerb weight - whichever is less

[s2kjock]

When I looked at this for a small sailing boat I don't recall anything about age of the trailer.

It wouldn't seem logical to base these criteria on the age of the trailer, but I would be interested to know.

They are not getting confused with driving licence entitlements are they?

[Slidingpillar]

There is something about non-auto reverse brakes and trailer age as I borrowed a trailer from a local firm and had to lock the brakes off on my return as I had to back into their yard from a busy road. No way was I leaping out, throwing a lever and climbing back in.

Not exactly legal, but my landrover had decent brakes.

[TooMany2cvs]

TOPTON said:

Now the guy told me as the trailer was built before the regs changed in the 80's (supposedly, I don't think it is plated) then it doesn't require a braking system.

Nope. Not a chance. No way.

If it's old enough not to need a VIN plate, then the MAM is the total of the tyre load codes - but your licence still restricts you to 750kg max unbraked, and your tow car will not be rated for more than 750kg max unbraked, anyway.

[amancalledrob]

TooMany2cvs said:

Nope. Not a chance. No way.

If it's old enough not to need a VIN plate, then the MAM is the total of the tyre load codes - but your licence still restricts you to 750kg max unbraked, and your tow car will not be rated for more than 750kg max unbraked, anyway.

This is partly right (so that's an improvement for you)

Any trailer weighing over 750kg loaded needs brakes, but if you've held your licence since before 1997 you may be able to drive a vehicle and trailer combo up to 8250kg with no further test necessary as long as the trailer is braked.

This is by no means exhaustive and you should find all the information you need here: https://www.gov.uk/towing-with-car/driving-licence...

[TooMany2cvs]

amancalledrob said:

Any trailer weighing over 750kg loaded needs brakes, but if you've held your licence since before 1997 you may be able to drive a vehicle and trailer combo up to 8250kg with no further test necessary as long as the trailer is braked.

Umm, yes. The italics are yours, which saves me having to highlight that somewhat relevant bit...

[amancalledrob]

TooMany2cvs said:

amancalledrob said:

Any trailer weighing over 750kg loaded needs brakes, but if you've held your licence since before 1997 you may be able to drive a vehicle and trailer combo up to 8250kg with no further test necessary as long as the trailer is braked.

Umm, yes. The italics are yours, which saves me having to highlight that somewhat relevant bit...

Given that's the bit you got right, I'm not sure what your point is

[TooMany2cvs]

amancalledrob said:

TooMany2cvs said:

amancalledrob said:

Any trailer weighing over 750kg loaded needs brakes, but if you've held your licence since before 1997 you may be able to drive a vehicle and trailer combo up to 8250kg with no further test necessary as long as the trailer is braked.

Umm, yes. The italics are yours, which saves me having to highlight that somewhat relevant bit...

Given that's the bit you got right, I'm not sure what your point is

The trailer isn't braked, so normal B+E doesn't come into it.

[mph1977]

amancalledrob said:

TooMany2cvs said:

amancalledrob said:

Any trailer weighing over 750kg loaded needs brakes, but if you've held your licence since before 1997 you may be able to drive a vehicle and trailer combo up to 8250kg with no further test necessary as long as the trailer is braked.

Umm, yes. The italics are yours, which saves me having to highlight that somewhat relevant bit...

Given that's the bit you got right, I'm not sure what your point is

Anyone with a full cat B can tow an unbraked trailer; The maxmium mass of a legal unbraked trailer is 750 kg.

Braked trailers - if you have B+E either via test or a pre- 97 car licence you can tow up to 3500kg ( which is the limit for 'over-run ' brakes if the vehicle can tow it ...

if you have a post 97 car licence you can tow some braked trailers depending on towing vehicle mass, towing vehicle towing capacity and trailer mass - see rog's sticky thread at the top of the SPL page.

[RobbyJ]

If the OP is just keen to understand the legality at play here then I totally understand. If however he want's to drive an unbraked trailer over 750kg's on a technicality then personally I'd rather not. My boat and trailer is probably 5-600kgs but the couple of times I've had to brake hard you really felt the mass pushing you on. For safety alone if it were me I'd much rather have a braked trailer for over 750kg's regardless of what the law says.

[TOPTON]

RobbyJ said:

If the OP is just keen to understand the legality at play here then I totally understand. If however he want's to drive an unbraked trailer over 750kg's on a technicality then personally I'd rather not. My boat and trailer is probably 5-600kgs but the couple of times I've had to brake hard you really felt the mass pushing you on. For safety alone if it were me I'd much rather have a braked trailer for over 750kg's regardless of what the law says.

It was purely to find out the legal side of things as I didn't think it was true and google didn't want to help.
If it was true then I would buy it and tow it home. Get a second hand twin wheel alko chassis and swap things over

Anyone willing to take a guess at its weight, I have no idea other than I think it is way over 750kg

1980 ish 18ft American fibreglass speed boat___???kg
volvo penta stern drive and gearbox/prop_______???kg
2.0l pinto engine/fuel etc_____________________150kg
21ft twin axle steel trailer___________________???kg

[mph1977]

TOPTON said:

RobbyJ said:

If the OP is just keen to understand the legality at play here then I totally understand. If however he want's to drive an unbraked trailer over 750kg's on a technicality then personally I'd rather not. My boat and trailer is probably 5-600kgs but the couple of times I've had to brake hard you really felt the mass pushing you on. For safety alone if it were me I'd much rather have a braked trailer for over 750kg's regardless of what the law says.

It was purely to find out the legal side of things as I didn't think it was true and google didn't want to help.
If it was true then I would buy it and tow it home. Get a second hand twin wheel alko chassis and swap things over

Anyone willing to take a guess at its weight, I have no idea other than I think it is way over 750kg

1980 ish 18ft American fibreglass speed boat___???kg
volvo penta stern drive and gearbox/prop_______???kg
2.0l pinto engine/fuel etc_____________________150kg
21ft twin axle steel trailer___________________???kg

definitely into needs a braked trailer territory , i bet the trailer still has US spec (illegal) lights ...

[RDMcG]

I have done an extensive amount of trailer towing, (maybe 60,000 miles) and I would not go for an unbraked trailer . Over the years I have had some abrupt stops. I also have a trailer controller in the Cayenne so I can set the braking on the trailer depending on the weight being towed.

[Chrisgr31]

My googling found this http://www.stripersonline.com/surftalk/topic/42975...

Is it possible to retrofit brakes to a trailer?

[TooMany2cvs]

TOPTON said:

It was purely to find out the legal side of things as I didn't think it was true and google didn't want to help.
If it was true then I would buy it and tow it home. Get a second hand twin wheel alko chassis and swap things over

Anyone willing to take a guess at its weight, I have no idea other than I think it is way over 750kg

1980 ish 18ft American fibreglass speed boat___???kg
volvo penta stern drive and gearbox/prop_______???kg
2.0l pinto engine/fuel etc_____________________150kg
21ft twin axle steel trailer___________________???kg

It's academic. If it's unplated, the MAM is the sum of the tyre loads. Unless you've got four tyres on it which are 185kg each or less (so that's load rating 49 or below - eek!), then the MAM is over 750kg, so the trailer's illegal. Doesn't much matter what it actually weighs in at.

Chrisgr31 said:

Is it possible to retrofit brakes to a trailer?

Not hard. Change the suspension units over for braked ones, change for a braked hitch, tie it all together with the usual wire string and threaded rod.

[R0G]

Trailers and licences all go on the plated weights

If no weight plate then the total of all the tyre load ratings will be the trailer MAM

If the MAM of a trailer is over 750 kg then by law it must be braked

An unbraked trailer cannot be more than half the vehicle unladen weight


Working out what the actual weight will be is only useful to ensure the MAM is not exceeded but is no use for working out trailer construction laws

[rxe]

I would agree that getting it on a braked trailer is the right answer. I often tow a big Ifor-Williams twin axle loaded with wood. It must be, er, in the region of 3.5 tonnes. The tow car is a Defender, which is pretty capable. When pressing the brakes in a hurry, there is a moment of "nothing", then the trailer brakes kick in and the whole lot comes to a violent stop. I wouldn't like to be dependant on the Defender brakes alone....

[Fish]

rxe said:

I would agree that getting it on a braked trailer is the right answer. I often tow a big Ifor-Williams twin axle loaded with wood. It must be, er, in the region of 3.5 tonnes. The tow car is a Defender, which is pretty capable. When pressing the brakes in a hurry, there is a moment of "nothing", then the trailer brakes kick in and the whole lot comes to a violent stop. I wouldn't like to be dependant on the Defender brakes alone....

you can adjust all that so that dead zone virtually disappears, makes life much more pleasant..