Given nice car. HPI'd it and found it to be stolen - advice?
Discussion
You know when things are too good to be true...
I have been given a car here in Düsseldorf (where I work) by some friends of my wife friends. It's a British car, a 57 plate Lexus.
They are reasonably wealthy types (living in Oberkassel if you know the area - which is a millionaires area of Düsseldorf), and I really have no reason to doubt their honesty.
They used to live in Cardiff, but moved out here 6 or so years ago and brought the car with them. Basically the car has run out of MOT, they'd left it under a tree for about 3 months. It was looking sorry for itself and had a dead battery. It was a liability to them and they just wanted it out of the way. I shoved another battery on it, pressed the button, and it started immediately. A quick spruce at the local car wash, and it looks really good.
It's a nice thing, drives perfectly, more toys than my AMG, but has obviously been out here for a long time. It has full Lexus service history since the end of 2010 - 5 stamps at the Düsseldorf Lexus main dealers. It's in really good condition and was obviously looked after - new-ish brakes - 4 matching recent Dunlops etc...
I am due to drive it back on Friday (to a pre-arranged MOT), and thought I'd just HPI it before coming back. But ... problem ...
That marker was set during the last owners ownership, as they bought the car 04.06.2010 according to the v5 that is now in my name. Insurance fraud maybe?
It's not Police stolen, I contacted them and they are not interested.
I phoned my insurance company (Aviva) and they have no record of it being stolen either - it comes up green on their system.
Oh, and one other weird thing on the HPI check:
Road Tax Status
Expired: 18 Jun 2016
MOT Status
Expired : 30 May 2014
How is is possible to have had tax more than two years after the MOT ran out?
Dodgy free car with lovely leather appears to be dodgy...
So where do I go from here? I obviously need to get this marker removed before I can sell it- or indeed return it to the insurance company if indeed they do own it.
Any advice on who to phone next would be most welcome!
I have been given a car here in Düsseldorf (where I work) by some friends of my wife friends. It's a British car, a 57 plate Lexus.
They are reasonably wealthy types (living in Oberkassel if you know the area - which is a millionaires area of Düsseldorf), and I really have no reason to doubt their honesty.
They used to live in Cardiff, but moved out here 6 or so years ago and brought the car with them. Basically the car has run out of MOT, they'd left it under a tree for about 3 months. It was looking sorry for itself and had a dead battery. It was a liability to them and they just wanted it out of the way. I shoved another battery on it, pressed the button, and it started immediately. A quick spruce at the local car wash, and it looks really good.
It's a nice thing, drives perfectly, more toys than my AMG, but has obviously been out here for a long time. It has full Lexus service history since the end of 2010 - 5 stamps at the Düsseldorf Lexus main dealers. It's in really good condition and was obviously looked after - new-ish brakes - 4 matching recent Dunlops etc...
I am due to drive it back on Friday (to a pre-arranged MOT), and thought I'd just HPI it before coming back. But ... problem ...
That marker was set during the last owners ownership, as they bought the car 04.06.2010 according to the v5 that is now in my name. Insurance fraud maybe?
It's not Police stolen, I contacted them and they are not interested.
I phoned my insurance company (Aviva) and they have no record of it being stolen either - it comes up green on their system.
Oh, and one other weird thing on the HPI check:
Road Tax Status
Expired: 18 Jun 2016
MOT Status
Expired : 30 May 2014
How is is possible to have had tax more than two years after the MOT ran out?
Dodgy free car with lovely leather appears to be dodgy...
So where do I go from here? I obviously need to get this marker removed before I can sell it- or indeed return it to the insurance company if indeed they do own it.
Any advice on who to phone next would be most welcome!
If the police don't care and you've got the V5, I would ignore it. Seems most likely that it's an error on HPI's part, or they're not telling you the full story.
I sold a car which had "outstanding finance" on it from the original owner, only found out when the prospective buyer said he'd HPI checked it and it'd come up. One phone call the the finance company involved and it was fixed, it was just a cock up.
I sold a car which had "outstanding finance" on it from the original owner, only found out when the prospective buyer said he'd HPI checked it and it'd come up. One phone call the the finance company involved and it was fixed, it was just a cock up.
HPI ain't that rigorous, they rely on update information being provided.
I had a HPI record that showed a 2 year old car with 1 owner for sale at a main dealer had covered -5000 miles in 6 months but HPI said the mileage was genuine. When I complained to their MD he said it might be a typo, they don't check entries!!
I had a HPI record that showed a 2 year old car with 1 owner for sale at a main dealer had covered -5000 miles in 6 months but HPI said the mileage was genuine. When I complained to their MD he said it might be a typo, they don't check entries!!
Davie_GLA said:
The people who gave you it?
Yes I've sent them a text, but I believe they spend a lot of time in Japan, so may not get a reply back immediately. PlayFair said:
stolen and then recovered - lots of these for sale I assume?
No idea, never sold a modern car before. Not too many I hope! InitialDave said:
If the police don't care and you've got the V5, I would ignore it. Seems most likely that it's an error on HPI's part, or they're not telling you the full story.
Yeah true, but I want to sell it. It's worth about £4k, so anyone buying will run the same check as me.drdel said:
HPI ain't that rigorous, they rely on update information being provided.
I had a HPI record that showed a 2 year old car with 1 owner for sale at a main dealer had covered -5000 miles in 6 months but HPI said the mileage was genuine. When I complained to their MD he said it might be a typo, they don't check entries!!
Well, that's what I hope. The impossible tax/mot ratio would suggest errors somewhere... I had a HPI record that showed a 2 year old car with 1 owner for sale at a main dealer had covered -5000 miles in 6 months but HPI said the mileage was genuine. When I complained to their MD he said it might be a typo, they don't check entries!!
Butter Face said:
You could call HPI?
Yeah good point, thanks. I went through totalcarcheck, so will see if they have contact details. Speed 3 said:
Utterpiffle said:
Yeah true, but I want to sell it. It's worth about £4k, so anyone buying will run the same check as me.
If you've got it for nowt, why the angst ? Sounds like you're trying to turn a profit on someone else's generosity ?HPI aren't entirely infallible. Since you have the details of the car, run it through the DVLA system and see what that does.
https://www.gov.uk/check-vehicle-tax
Also, give askMID a go.
https://ownvehicle.askmid.com/
See what you get back - if it's anything interesting, post it up here!
https://www.gov.uk/check-vehicle-tax
Also, give askMID a go.
https://ownvehicle.askmid.com/
See what you get back - if it's anything interesting, post it up here!
Utterpiffle said:
Oh, and one other weird thing on the HPI check:
Road Tax Status
Expired: 18 Jun 2016
MOT Status
Expired : 30 May 2014
How is is possible to have had tax more than two years after the MOT ran out?
Just because it's showing as "unlicenced" doesn't mean it was taxed before. Was 18/6/16 the date the keeper changed? If so, then the SORN got cancelled by that, leaving it unlicenced...Road Tax Status
Expired: 18 Jun 2016
MOT Status
Expired : 30 May 2014
How is is possible to have had tax more than two years after the MOT ran out?
The report shows that on the insurance MIAFTA's database its recorded as stolen. Not the police. It is quite possible the vehicle was previously stolen in 2011, recovered, so the police interest was removed, but the insurance one hasn't.
You won't get any trouble driving it, as the police computer is clear.
With a bit of digging, (get HPI to do some work on this), you should be able to get the insertion amended.
You would not have received the V5 had it been still recorded with the police as stolen, instead the address you have the vehicle registered too, would have received a visit from the local police.
Don't worry too much at al and enjoy your free wheels
You won't get any trouble driving it, as the police computer is clear.
With a bit of digging, (get HPI to do some work on this), you should be able to get the insertion amended.
You would not have received the V5 had it been still recorded with the police as stolen, instead the address you have the vehicle registered too, would have received a visit from the local police.
Don't worry too much at al and enjoy your free wheels
Speed 3 said:
If you've got it for nowt, why the angst ? Sounds like you're trying to turn a profit on someone else's generosity ?
What's wrong with that? Aren't you allowed to sell something that you no longer want, just because it was given as a gift? Is he obligated to keep this car forever, or can he offload it but has to give it away free because he was given it free????I had this problem with the wife's old car. The week we collected it, someone broke into our house and stole the keys and took it for a month long joyride. The police recovered it (amazingly) and insurance repaired any damage and handed it back.
fast foward 3 years, we come to sell the car on. When we took the car to the first dealer, they gave us a wildly under-market value valuation on the car. (3k, the car was worth about 7) we didn't really understand why not. we then took it to another place who basically threatened to call the police. We were puzzled!
It turns out that when the car was returned after it was stolen, the insurance marker which should have been removed never was. A representitive at the insurance called this a category Z - probably denotes something that falls outside of the usual categories - or "something's a bit funny."
We had to go back to the original insurer which the car was insured with when it was stolen (7 day free insurance with mini) and politely instructed them 6 or 7 times that were was something wrong and they needed to remove the marker. after lots of to-ing and fro-ing, it was eventually sorted out and the value was reinstated.
I'd suggest this is the course of action to persue. find out which insurance company placed the marker on the hpi and persue them to remove it citing that the car isn't stolen as the police aren't interested in this car.
fast foward 3 years, we come to sell the car on. When we took the car to the first dealer, they gave us a wildly under-market value valuation on the car. (3k, the car was worth about 7) we didn't really understand why not. we then took it to another place who basically threatened to call the police. We were puzzled!
It turns out that when the car was returned after it was stolen, the insurance marker which should have been removed never was. A representitive at the insurance called this a category Z - probably denotes something that falls outside of the usual categories - or "something's a bit funny."
We had to go back to the original insurer which the car was insured with when it was stolen (7 day free insurance with mini) and politely instructed them 6 or 7 times that were was something wrong and they needed to remove the marker. after lots of to-ing and fro-ing, it was eventually sorted out and the value was reinstated.
I'd suggest this is the course of action to persue. find out which insurance company placed the marker on the hpi and persue them to remove it citing that the car isn't stolen as the police aren't interested in this car.
Quick update - text from the last owner:
"Yes, the car was once reported as stolen, and a claim was made. However, after a few weeks, the Düsseldorf police found it in a towing compound, it was recovered and the claim was cancelled with no payment being made. Unfortunately, I don't remember which insurance company it was with at the time, however we brought the car back to the UK for MOT taxing etc. many times after."
So now, all I need to do is get that marker off the car...
Thanks for the replies so far:
Well, the angst is that I didn't want to bring a car back to the UK that is on some sort of register where I get arrested at the boarder...
As for generosity, there is none. It was a non-running car with no MOT and they saw no way or had no time to get the car back to the UK to make legal again. I was doing them a favour by "disposing" (their word, not mine) of the car for them.
Therefore I fully intend to turn a profit and have no guilt in doing so.
Ah, brilliant, thank you. Yes that makes perfect sense - I guess the v5 was moved to me around that time. I'll hopefully tax it on Friday after MOT, so there shouldn't be a fine (I hope!)
"Yes, the car was once reported as stolen, and a claim was made. However, after a few weeks, the Düsseldorf police found it in a towing compound, it was recovered and the claim was cancelled with no payment being made. Unfortunately, I don't remember which insurance company it was with at the time, however we brought the car back to the UK for MOT taxing etc. many times after."
So now, all I need to do is get that marker off the car...
Thanks for the replies so far:
Speed 3 said:
Utterpiffle said:
Yeah true, but I want to sell it. It's worth about £4k, so anyone buying will run the same check as me.
If you've got it for nowt, why the angst ? Sounds like you're trying to turn a profit on someone else's generosity ?As for generosity, there is none. It was a non-running car with no MOT and they saw no way or had no time to get the car back to the UK to make legal again. I was doing them a favour by "disposing" (their word, not mine) of the car for them.
Therefore I fully intend to turn a profit and have no guilt in doing so.
TooMany2cvs said:
Utterpiffle said:
Oh, and one other weird thing on the HPI check:
Road Tax Status
Expired: 18 Jun 2016
MOT Status
Expired : 30 May 2014
How is is possible to have had tax more than two years after the MOT ran out?
Just because it's showing as "unlicensed" doesn't mean it was taxed before. Was 18/6/16 the date the keeper changed? If so, then the SORN got cancelled by that, leaving it unlicensed...Road Tax Status
Expired: 18 Jun 2016
MOT Status
Expired : 30 May 2014
How is is possible to have had tax more than two years after the MOT ran out?
AutoClouseau said:
The report shows that on the insurance MIAFTA's database its recorded as stolen. Not the police. It is quite possible the vehicle was previously stolen in 2011, recovered, so the police interest was removed, but the insurance one hasn't.
You won't get any trouble driving it, as the police computer is clear.
With a bit of digging, (get HPI to do some work on this), you should be able to get the insertion amended.
You would not have received the V5 had it been still recorded with the police as stolen, instead the address you have the vehicle registered too, would have received a visit from the local police.
Don't worry too much at al and enjoy your free wheels
HPI know who insured it when? That's who I need to speak with next then. Thank you.You won't get any trouble driving it, as the police computer is clear.
With a bit of digging, (get HPI to do some work on this), you should be able to get the insertion amended.
You would not have received the V5 had it been still recorded with the police as stolen, instead the address you have the vehicle registered too, would have received a visit from the local police.
Don't worry too much at al and enjoy your free wheels
klingelton said:
...
I'd suggest this is the course of action to persue. find out which insurance company placed the marker on the hpi and persue them to remove it citing that the car isn't stolen as the police aren't interested in this car.
Pretty much the plan now, thanks. Just need to find out who insured it at that time...I'd suggest this is the course of action to persue. find out which insurance company placed the marker on the hpi and persue them to remove it citing that the car isn't stolen as the police aren't interested in this car.
p.s.
I don't take it for granted that I was very lucky and have rather fallen on my feet. It looked rough inside and out when I collected it, but after half a day of washing, claying, polishing and scrubbing, it's come up pretty well. A few scratches on the paint. 110k miles, 4 almost new Dunlop tyres, recent brakes, perfect interior etc. It's the SE-L version too, so good spec - more toys than my e63 of the same age. It's genuinely a very good car.
I don't take it for granted that I was very lucky and have rather fallen on my feet. It looked rough inside and out when I collected it, but after half a day of washing, claying, polishing and scrubbing, it's come up pretty well. A few scratches on the paint. 110k miles, 4 almost new Dunlop tyres, recent brakes, perfect interior etc. It's the SE-L version too, so good spec - more toys than my e63 of the same age. It's genuinely a very good car.
Edited by Utterpiffle on Wednesday 13th July 15:22
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