Overtaking Accident
Discussion
So here's a question for you, is there a point at which certain driving rules that are normally a 'given' change due to other circumstances. Sorry that wasn't well worded!
Example. single carriageway, about to overtake the car infront, you check your mirrors - all clear, check ahead nothing coming, signal and start the overtake. Out of nowhere ( from behind ) a vehicle crashes into you as your part way to pulling out into the opposing lane. The car infront was slightly under the speed limit for arguments sake its doing about 50-55 in a 60, its safe to do 60 so you have decided on the overtake. The vehicle that 'appears' from behind has clearly been doing far more than 60, because it wasn't there 1-2 seconds previously ( and the road behind was pretty straight so you could see a long way back)
Its a long time since i had to do the 'code' for my old style test, but i was always under the impression that if you pull out infront of someone ( as above ) it would be your fault. But i wonder if that always holds true....after all, surely there comes a point where what's reasonable in terms of checking that all is clear/safe (behind you) becomes a impossible? So does that change anything?
No it wasn't me! Something like this happened recently which provoked various discussions amongst a few of us in a car club..
Example. single carriageway, about to overtake the car infront, you check your mirrors - all clear, check ahead nothing coming, signal and start the overtake. Out of nowhere ( from behind ) a vehicle crashes into you as your part way to pulling out into the opposing lane. The car infront was slightly under the speed limit for arguments sake its doing about 50-55 in a 60, its safe to do 60 so you have decided on the overtake. The vehicle that 'appears' from behind has clearly been doing far more than 60, because it wasn't there 1-2 seconds previously ( and the road behind was pretty straight so you could see a long way back)
Its a long time since i had to do the 'code' for my old style test, but i was always under the impression that if you pull out infront of someone ( as above ) it would be your fault. But i wonder if that always holds true....after all, surely there comes a point where what's reasonable in terms of checking that all is clear/safe (behind you) becomes a impossible? So does that change anything?
No it wasn't me! Something like this happened recently which provoked various discussions amongst a few of us in a car club..
IMHO I still think it would be looked on as the over-takers fault. As they A) should have checked there mirrors as they pulled out. B) just because a car is breaking the speed limit doesn't mean anything you do is OK. Look at it another way, if you pulled into the 3rd lane of a motorway and you caused a car coming up fast behind you to crash, whilst there speeding may have been a contributing factor it was your actions that caused the accident.
A similar accident happened to me, but I was in the car that 'appeared from nowhere'.
When in reality I was behind the car (a ford KA)for about 7 seconds before overtaking him and the truck. The KA was behind a dump truck and going up a hill when I came up behind them both. There was a straight bit at the top, tight, but I had a fairly nippy car so went for the overtake.
As I was alongside the Ford KA he decides to yank straight into the opposite lane I was in. I moved as far across the road as I could, but he ended up bouncing off me into the ditch. Both the Police and insurance found me to be in the right.
The Ford KA hadn't checked his mirrors or even looked over his shoulder. I kept my no claims and the police gave him a driver awareness course. It was clear the driver of the ford KA was careless.
In hindsight a ball ache experience, I have decided to make sure I always wait extra time before overtaking now, as a lot of car drivers drive in a tunnel vision bubble and don't check correctly before manoeuvring.
When in reality I was behind the car (a ford KA)for about 7 seconds before overtaking him and the truck. The KA was behind a dump truck and going up a hill when I came up behind them both. There was a straight bit at the top, tight, but I had a fairly nippy car so went for the overtake.
As I was alongside the Ford KA he decides to yank straight into the opposite lane I was in. I moved as far across the road as I could, but he ended up bouncing off me into the ditch. Both the Police and insurance found me to be in the right.
The Ford KA hadn't checked his mirrors or even looked over his shoulder. I kept my no claims and the police gave him a driver awareness course. It was clear the driver of the ford KA was careless.
In hindsight a ball ache experience, I have decided to make sure I always wait extra time before overtaking now, as a lot of car drivers drive in a tunnel vision bubble and don't check correctly before manoeuvring.
Many years ago I was told by my late father that if I chose to overtake more than one vehicle on a single carriageway, before I start the manoeuvre and also when I am actually overtaking to keep flashing my headlights to alert those who I'm overtaking of my presence.
I've followed that advice for the last couple of decades and fortunately never experienced the incident mentioned in the original post.
Another point. Cars rarely "come out of nowhere" when overtaking. What it means is that the driver who pulled out didn't check his mirror or his shoulder immediately prior and during his manoeuvre. What he/she did was to look some seconds before, see nothing untoward then assumed it was still clear when he/she pulled out.
I've followed that advice for the last couple of decades and fortunately never experienced the incident mentioned in the original post.
Another point. Cars rarely "come out of nowhere" when overtaking. What it means is that the driver who pulled out didn't check his mirror or his shoulder immediately prior and during his manoeuvre. What he/she did was to look some seconds before, see nothing untoward then assumed it was still clear when he/she pulled out.
Couple of years back I was involved in an accident very much line this. Three cars in line, front one going slow, middle one not wanting to overtake, me at the back waiting for a gap to get past. I had sat patiently for a couple of miles waiting for the middle car to move but they had ignored several reasonable opportunities to overtake. So when next safe gap appeared I did all the checks, indicated and started to overtake. Was all going well when ‘BANG’, middle car drove into the side of me. The initial point of impact was the rear edge of my front nearside door.
Anyway, it was all passed over to our insurers, and after a couple of rounds of letters I got all of my costs back, including my excess. From this I concluded that the dippy woman driving the middle car was seen by the insurers to be at fault.
Anyway, it was all passed over to our insurers, and after a couple of rounds of letters I got all of my costs back, including my excess. From this I concluded that the dippy woman driving the middle car was seen by the insurers to be at fault.
greengreenwood7 said:
So here's a question for you, is there a point at which certain driving rules that are normally a 'given' change due to other circumstances. Sorry that wasn't well worded!
Example. single carriageway, about to overtake the car infront, you check your mirrors - all clear, check ahead nothing coming, signal and start the overtake. Out of nowhere ( from behind ) a vehicle crashes into you as your part way to pulling out into the opposing lane. The car infront was slightly under the speed limit for arguments sake its doing about 50-55 in a 60, its safe to do 60 so you have decided on the overtake. The vehicle that 'appears' from behind has clearly been doing far more than 60, because it wasn't there 1-2 seconds previously ( and the road behind was pretty straight so you could see a long way back)
Its a long time since i had to do the 'code' for my old style test, but i was always under the impression that if you pull out infront of someone ( as above ) it would be your fault. But i wonder if that always holds true....after all, surely there comes a point where what's reasonable in terms of checking that all is clear/safe (behind you) becomes a impossible? So does that change anything?
No it wasn't me! Something like this happened recently which provoked various discussions amongst a few of us in a car club..
B is overtaking A.Example. single carriageway, about to overtake the car infront, you check your mirrors - all clear, check ahead nothing coming, signal and start the overtake. Out of nowhere ( from behind ) a vehicle crashes into you as your part way to pulling out into the opposing lane. The car infront was slightly under the speed limit for arguments sake its doing about 50-55 in a 60, its safe to do 60 so you have decided on the overtake. The vehicle that 'appears' from behind has clearly been doing far more than 60, because it wasn't there 1-2 seconds previously ( and the road behind was pretty straight so you could see a long way back)
Its a long time since i had to do the 'code' for my old style test, but i was always under the impression that if you pull out infront of someone ( as above ) it would be your fault. But i wonder if that always holds true....after all, surely there comes a point where what's reasonable in terms of checking that all is clear/safe (behind you) becomes a impossible? So does that change anything?
No it wasn't me! Something like this happened recently which provoked various discussions amongst a few of us in a car club..
As B is pulling out to pass A, C goes into the back of B.
How on earth could this be anything other than B's fault for not looking?
You said...
greengreenwood7 said:
The vehicle that 'appears' from behind has clearly been doing far more than 60, because it wasn't there 1-2 seconds previously ( and the road behind was pretty straight so you could see a long way back)
B is doing 60mph.If C is doing 120mph, he is closing on B at 60mph - 28m/sec. Agreed?
So are you seriously telling us that B couldn't possibly have seen a car 56m behind him in his mirrors? Because that's how far a car doing 120mph would have been two seconds before the collision? If C was "only" doing 90mph, then 56m would have taken him four seconds to close. Two seconds would have seen him only 28m away.
C may be exceeding the speed limit, but B is driving without due care and attention.
I was talking to a traffic cop once about these situations.
His view was that if the puller out said 'it was totally clear when I looked' or 'I saw him but he was a long way of and I had no idea he was going that fast' he probably had a point, at least in mitigation. If he said 'he came out of nowhere' his view was that the driver probably didn't look.
His view was that if the puller out said 'it was totally clear when I looked' or 'I saw him but he was a long way of and I had no idea he was going that fast' he probably had a point, at least in mitigation. If he said 'he came out of nowhere' his view was that the driver probably didn't look.
andyb28 said:
MoggieMinor said:
They are very easy to find for those who can turn their head.. Ask any motorcyclist.
^^ This. 
I've probably found three cars that were 'nowhere' thanks to doing lifesavers, it gives you a bit of a shock when you do find one but at least you don't collide
guys fully appreciate the 'out of nowhere' comments and use of mirrors etc. Apologies i had forgotten to add 1 car to the scenario....
So as above, Car A about to be overtaken by Car B, which was being followed by Car C - it was Car D ( which came from behind Car C ). Sp basically 'D' overtook C and then collided with B as it pulled out to make the overtaking move.
So as above, Car A about to be overtaken by Car B, which was being followed by Car C - it was Car D ( which came from behind Car C ). Sp basically 'D' overtook C and then collided with B as it pulled out to make the overtaking move.
greengreenwood7 said:
guys fully appreciate the 'out of nowhere' comments and use of mirrors etc. Apologies i had forgotten to add 1 car to the scenario....
So as above, Car A about to be overtaken by Car B, which was being followed by Car C - it was Car D ( which came from behind Car C ). Sp basically 'D' overtook C and then collided with B as it pulled out to make the overtaking move.
Same thing, B didn't make sufficient checks before moving out.So as above, Car A about to be overtaken by Car B, which was being followed by Car C - it was Car D ( which came from behind Car C ). Sp basically 'D' overtook C and then collided with B as it pulled out to make the overtaking move.
greengreenwood7 said:
guys fully appreciate the 'out of nowhere' comments and use of mirrors etc. Apologies i had forgotten to add 1 car to the scenario....
So as above, Car A about to be overtaken by Car B, which was being followed by Car C - it was Car D ( which came from behind Car C ). Sp basically 'D' overtook C and then collided with B as it pulled out to make the overtaking move.
No great surprise.So as above, Car A about to be overtaken by Car B, which was being followed by Car C - it was Car D ( which came from behind Car C ). Sp basically 'D' overtook C and then collided with B as it pulled out to make the overtaking move.
B looked in the mirror, thought "C's not overtaking", and didn't actually bother to look any further back.
The Spruce goose said:
A similar accident happened to me, but I was in the car that 'appeared from nowhere'.
I've been that car too, although I'm absolutely convinced the bloke had seen me because I saw him checking in his wing mirror as I pulled out. I came from two cars back and he pulled out right under my nose.Looking back, I suspect it came down to me being in something of a sleeper (Subaru Forester 2.5). The vast majority of people would not expect it to be as fast as it is, so I think he'd seen me pull out a couple of cars back, and simply assumed he would have completed the overtake long before I'd got there. As it was, I was almost alongside when he decided to pull out. Thankfully I saw him coming.
There's a lot to be learned from watching people faces in their wing mirror as you pass. I think that's the only thing that stopped me arriving in his boot.
There isn't a black and white answer. In the OP's scenario, if the car at the back is doing 70mph the balance of blame is towards the person pulling out into his path. If, on the other hand, he's doing 140mph, it may swing towards him. It depends on all the circumstances.
It may be that both drivers are being careless in the criminal sense and that in the event of damage both share some liability for it.
It may be that both drivers are being careless in the criminal sense and that in the event of damage both share some liability for it.
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