Small claims, is it worth it?
Discussion
Hoping the hive mind will be able to assist and offer some opinions on this.
Many weeks ago, Mrs Hacksaw and myself decided to attend a music event and so that we could both have a few drinks, decided to use a coach company for transport two and from the event, which was approximately 100 miles away. This was duly booked and paid for, many weeks before the event, cost of £64.
Two weeks before the event, we received emailed e-tickets for the travel along with a few notes on what to do.
Day of the event, we turn up as requested for the coach. Upon boarding, I asked the driver approximately what time we would arrive at the venue, to be told 5 hours from now. 5 hours to do 100 miles?? The reply was we were making stops on the way, except the stops were actually detours. The reverse route would be followed after the event, meaning we wouldn't return home until almost 06-00. This was no use to us as my wife was at work the following day, so we had no choice but to get off the coach and make our own way to the venue. Incidentally, we lost out on a hotel we had booked on our return, a cost of £48
My problem is that at no point or anywhere through the booking process or on receipt of the e-tickets, did it mention that this wouldn't be a direct journey. It wouldn't have been mentioned at all had I not asked the driver. None of the other passengers was aware of this route.
I sent an email of complaint to the company, requesting a refund. I received a reply saying they would investigate and get back to me within 28 days. Yesterday was 28 days and surprise surprise, no response.
I dropped them another email, they said it was being investigated and they would get back to me... To be honest, I now don't trust them and feel I am being given the runaround.
My question is, can I, or should I pursue this through the small claims court? Would I be successful? Its not really about the money, just that I feel aggrieved that a company feels it can treat its customers this way and just keep fobbing them off.
Sorry for the long post, thanks in advance for peoples thoughts.
Many weeks ago, Mrs Hacksaw and myself decided to attend a music event and so that we could both have a few drinks, decided to use a coach company for transport two and from the event, which was approximately 100 miles away. This was duly booked and paid for, many weeks before the event, cost of £64.
Two weeks before the event, we received emailed e-tickets for the travel along with a few notes on what to do.
Day of the event, we turn up as requested for the coach. Upon boarding, I asked the driver approximately what time we would arrive at the venue, to be told 5 hours from now. 5 hours to do 100 miles?? The reply was we were making stops on the way, except the stops were actually detours. The reverse route would be followed after the event, meaning we wouldn't return home until almost 06-00. This was no use to us as my wife was at work the following day, so we had no choice but to get off the coach and make our own way to the venue. Incidentally, we lost out on a hotel we had booked on our return, a cost of £48
My problem is that at no point or anywhere through the booking process or on receipt of the e-tickets, did it mention that this wouldn't be a direct journey. It wouldn't have been mentioned at all had I not asked the driver. None of the other passengers was aware of this route.
I sent an email of complaint to the company, requesting a refund. I received a reply saying they would investigate and get back to me within 28 days. Yesterday was 28 days and surprise surprise, no response.
I dropped them another email, they said it was being investigated and they would get back to me... To be honest, I now don't trust them and feel I am being given the runaround.
My question is, can I, or should I pursue this through the small claims court? Would I be successful? Its not really about the money, just that I feel aggrieved that a company feels it can treat its customers this way and just keep fobbing them off.
Sorry for the long post, thanks in advance for peoples thoughts.
It depends on what your contract with the coach company says.
Did they say they'd get you to the venue?
Did they say they'd get you to the venue in time for the event?
Did you tell them you needed to be there by a particular time before you paid, and did they agree to that?
Likewise, was there any mention and agreement, by either party, of/to a particular time for the return journey?
Did they say they'd get you to the venue?
Did they say they'd get you to the venue in time for the event?
Did you tell them you needed to be there by a particular time before you paid, and did they agree to that?
Likewise, was there any mention and agreement, by either party, of/to a particular time for the return journey?
At this point, you're way, way too early to be even thinking about court action. You need to keep pushing the company for a response.
Only at the point where you have exhausted all options with the company, should you even THINK about courts.
Even then, (a) the case sounds far from watertight because I'll bet there's something in their terms about 'any available route', and (b) the amount of money involved would mean going to court would almost certainly be more hassle than it's worth.
Only at the point where you have exhausted all options with the company, should you even THINK about courts.
Even then, (a) the case sounds far from watertight because I'll bet there's something in their terms about 'any available route', and (b) the amount of money involved would mean going to court would almost certainly be more hassle than it's worth.
marshalla said:
It depends on what your contract with the coach company says.
Did they say they'd get you to the venue?
Did they say they'd get you to the venue in time for the event?
Did you tell them you needed to be there by a particular time before you paid, and did they agree to that?
Likewise, was there any mention and agreement, by either party, of/to a particular time for the return journey?
To answer the aboveDid they say they'd get you to the venue?
Did they say they'd get you to the venue in time for the event?
Did you tell them you needed to be there by a particular time before you paid, and did they agree to that?
Likewise, was there any mention and agreement, by either party, of/to a particular time for the return journey?
1, Of Course
2, again, of course
3, No, because I didn't need to be there by a particular time
4, Just a pick up / leave the venue time, never a mention of a route or duration.
zarjaz1991 said:
At this point, you're way, way too early to be even thinking about court action. You need to keep pushing the company for a response.
Only at the point where you have exhausted all options with the company, should you even THINK about courts.
Even then, (a) the case sounds far from watertight because I'll bet there's something in their terms about 'any available route', and (b) the amount of money involved would mean going to court would almost certainly be more hassle than it's worth.
The company has said, categorically, that they wont be refunding. As far as they are concerned, this is done with.Only at the point where you have exhausted all options with the company, should you even THINK about courts.
Even then, (a) the case sounds far from watertight because I'll bet there's something in their terms about 'any available route', and (b) the amount of money involved would mean going to court would almost certainly be more hassle than it's worth.
From their questions and answers page, which has been quoted to me in their response, they say;
Q: Will the coach be direct?
A: We will always endeavour to have direct coaches where possible.
It's not really about the money and I don't mind throwing a few quid at this, even if I lose, I just hate feeling like I've been done over!
I don't think you'll be successful.
They've fulfilled their obligations by agreeing to get you to the event on time and then back again. Just because you don't like the journey time or when you get home, that's not their problem.
Whilst hindsight is a wonderful thing, you should have checked with them when you booked it.
I, for one, hate travelling anywhere on coaches and hence would have wanted details of the journey length, time of arrival etc before booking.
They've fulfilled their obligations by agreeing to get you to the event on time and then back again. Just because you don't like the journey time or when you get home, that's not their problem.
Whilst hindsight is a wonderful thing, you should have checked with them when you booked it.
I, for one, hate travelling anywhere on coaches and hence would have wanted details of the journey length, time of arrival etc before booking.
hacksaw said:
marshalla said:
It depends on what your contract with the coach company says.
Did they say they'd get you to the venue?
Did they say they'd get you to the venue in time for the event?
Did you tell them you needed to be there by a particular time before you paid, and did they agree to that?
Likewise, was there any mention and agreement, by either party, of/to a particular time for the return journey?
To answer the aboveDid they say they'd get you to the venue?
Did they say they'd get you to the venue in time for the event?
Did you tell them you needed to be there by a particular time before you paid, and did they agree to that?
Likewise, was there any mention and agreement, by either party, of/to a particular time for the return journey?
1, Of Course
2, again, of course
3, No, because I didn't need to be there by a particular time
4, Just a pick up / leave the venue time, never a mention of a route or duration.
zarjaz1991 said:
At this point, you're way, way too early to be even thinking about court action. You need to keep pushing the company for a response.
Only at the point where you have exhausted all options with the company, should you even THINK about courts.
Even then, (a) the case sounds far from watertight because I'll bet there's something in their terms about 'any available route', and (b) the amount of money involved would mean going to court would almost certainly be more hassle than it's worth.
The company has said, categorically, that they wont be refunding. As far as they are concerned, this is done with.Only at the point where you have exhausted all options with the company, should you even THINK about courts.
Even then, (a) the case sounds far from watertight because I'll bet there's something in their terms about 'any available route', and (b) the amount of money involved would mean going to court would almost certainly be more hassle than it's worth.
From their questions and answers page, which has been quoted to me in their response, they say;
Q: Will the coach be direct?
A: We will always endeavour to have direct coaches where possible.
It's not really about the money and I don't mind throwing a few quid at this, even if I lose, I just hate feeling like I've been done over!
If you had particular expectations or requirements, then the time to find out if the coach meets those is before you book.
KevinCamaroSS said:
I think you were perhaps a bit naïve thinking you would get a direct coach for the two of you. Next time ask for the routing and likely timings beforehand.
There wasn't only two of us, as I said earlier, others joined the same time as us. The others were unhappy at the route as well but only my wife and I had alternative transport available.Just to point out, the company wont issue any timings or routes until the day.
People seem to have an expectation of you to verify something a supplier didn't reasonably publish and your very reasonable expectation that a 100 mile trip would never take 5 hours. They have been deceiving and underhand as they now people wouldn't book them if they said it was a 5 hour trip. They choose the route for their convenience and self interest and f the customer. Dig in.
I would guess that £64, it's probably not worth it anyway?
I am definitely no expert, but its a lot of hassle and time for such a small amount of cash.
MCOL fees start at £25, I don't know if there are court fees too? I'm not sure if the £25 is returned.
I'm pretty sure you will need to attend the hearing and generally you will not get awarded 'costs' to cover your time.
Happy to be corrected if I'm wrong.
I do know that going to court to punish or the principal of it, is for the rich only.
I am definitely no expert, but its a lot of hassle and time for such a small amount of cash.
MCOL fees start at £25, I don't know if there are court fees too? I'm not sure if the £25 is returned.
I'm pretty sure you will need to attend the hearing and generally you will not get awarded 'costs' to cover your time.
Happy to be corrected if I'm wrong.
I do know that going to court to punish or the principal of it, is for the rich only.
Ken Figenus said:
People seem to have an expectation of you to verify something a supplier didn't reasonably publish and your very reasonable expectation that a 100 mile trip would never take 5 hours. They have been deceiving and underhand as they now people wouldn't book them if they said it was a 5 hour trip. They choose the route for their convenience and self interest and f the customer. Dig in.
Conversely, if the route or timings are unpublished and either are important to you, it's a small task to call and ask before purchase. If it's ambiguous, you decide whether or not to take the risk, taking into account the price and the importance of either metric.Digging in puts you on the road to fighting on principle, which is an easy way to waste time and money if it's a legal battle you'r digging in to.
janesmith1950 said:
Ken Figenus said:
People seem to have an expectation of you to verify something a supplier didn't reasonably publish and your very reasonable expectation that a 100 mile trip would never take 5 hours. They have been deceiving and underhand as they now people wouldn't book them if they said it was a 5 hour trip. They choose the route for their convenience and self interest and f the customer. Dig in.
Conversely, if the route or timings are unpublished and either are important to you, it's a small task to call and ask before purchase. If it's ambiguous, you decide whether or not to take the risk, taking into account the price and the importance of either metric.Digging in puts you on the road to fighting on principle, which is an easy way to waste time and money if it's a legal battle you'r digging in to.
I'd also draw attention to the wording of the FAQs: the company will endeavour to make direct trips where possible. The onus is therefore on the company to provide details of why a direct trip wasn't possible, otherwise they aren't fulfilling the commitment in their marketing.
Whether or not it's worth pursuing can only be answered by the OP though, clearly any monetary award would be negligible. If it were important to me to obtain retribution, I'd consider calling the local newspaper early in the morning on a slow news day, with a few high quality photos ready of you looking suitably unhappy in front of one of their buses/depot.
janesmith1950 said:
Ken Figenus said:
Digging in puts you on the road to fighting on principle, which is an easy way to waste time and money if it's a legal battle you'r digging in to.
I think Jane's right - its more about the principle and getting away with mugging people off. If no joy a few well placed 'shoes' on social media and reviews provide some Karma. An online agency stitched my up over £500 and wouldn't budge an inch when they totally failed to deliver and were Simply incompetent and I had to employ another provider. I guarantee to have cost them far more than £500 in lost business... Reputation is key in business after all.Im not quite sure what you thought you booked but a mini cab for a 100 mile return with a gap in the middle would have been a lot more than £68
In fact Uber are currently quoting £130 for a 100 mile single trip across the Midlands (not London)
You are possibly being naive if you thought you could book a non scheduled coach for the 2 of you which wouldnt chop and change its route such as the company could fill some more seats
Cheers
Jasandjules said:
No offence OP but the claim value makes it not worth it before you start IMHO.
Going further, did your ticket say "direct" coach or somesuch as it is, IME, quite normal for these coaches to make a few stops....
Why would I take offence? As I said right at he beginning, it's a bit about principal, not the money.Going further, did your ticket say "direct" coach or somesuch as it is, IME, quite normal for these coaches to make a few stops....
Here is the ticket, sent to me on the 6th of June, 11 days before travel.
[Mod note : insufficient redaction. Still breached naming & shaming rules]
numtumfutunch said:
Im not quite sure what you thought you booked but a mini cab for a 100 mile return with a gap in the middle would have been a lot more than £68
In fact Uber are currently quoting £130 for a 100 mile single trip across the Midlands (not London)
You are possibly being naive if you thought you could book a non scheduled coach for the 2 of you which wouldnt chop and change its route such as the company could fill some more seats
Cheers
So, what I thought I had bought was return coach travel directly to and from said venue, as nowhere at the time of booking or at the issuing of tickets was it mentioned it wasn't direct. Naive, yes I was, but having never used the company or this kind of service before, I made a guess. Which was wrong and I believe I was misled.In fact Uber are currently quoting £130 for a 100 mile single trip across the Midlands (not London)
You are possibly being naive if you thought you could book a non scheduled coach for the 2 of you which wouldnt chop and change its route such as the company could fill some more seats
Cheers
I'm not sure what a bearing the cost of a Midlands uber trip has on what I booked?
Edited by hacksaw on Wednesday 20th July 08:03
Edited by marshalla on Wednesday 20th July 13:55
Edited by marshalla on Wednesday 20th July 13:57
Forums | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff