Section 75 for misrepresented product

[Durzel]

Normally consider myself pretty savvy but hey ho...

Bought a framed canvas painting for circa £185 after exchange rate conversion (USD) from Company X. On X's website it is explicitly stated that the canvas is a limited edition, with an on-screen counter showing both a timer and how much stock they have left (<15).

Company X's website states that it'll take up to 7 days to ship because they're manufactured to order.

Within a day of ordering my order apparently shipped which raised alarm bells, especially as Company X have thus far been unable to provide any tracking information.

After doing some research today it became apparent that the print is for sale on Aliexpress.com, made by a Chinese company Y, printed rather than painted, and is obviously not a limited edition by any stretch of the imagination. It is also less than half the price on there.

Company Y also state that they send their prints by China Air Post without tracking (EMS is a cost option) which would explain why Company X is unable to provide me with anything. Evidently Company X is dropshipping Company Y's products.

I confronted Company X with this information but they have not yet responded.

I paid on credit card (habit when dealing with anyone new) - assuming it does eventually arrive do I have any shout under Section 75 for misrepresentation? This isn't a case of buyers remorse or issue with dropshipping persay - but I wouldn't have bought it if i believed it was just a print of limitless quantity and (likely) cheap quality.

EDIT: Forgot to add that I went back to Company X's website and the counter for the quantity and time remaining just resets every day - it doesn't correspond to actual stock

Edited by Durzel on Wednesday 20th July 18:56

[Escapegoat]

Durzel said:

... the canvas is a limited edition, ... printed rather than painted,

All limited editions are printed rather than painted, no? I can't see an artist painting 100-off by hand!

[PlayFair]

how many makes something limited?

there is a 'limited edition' Vauxhall Corsa - but i'm sure there are thousands.

[Durzel]

A fair point. The bar showing the amount of stock remaining tended to suggest there was about 25 total, though it doesn't explicitly say this (and the counter is fake anyway)

[Mojooo]

For consumer contracts the misrepresentation provisions of the Misrepresentation Act 1967 have been repalced by the recently amended Consuemr Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008. This offers consumers protections from businesses engaging is misleading practices - and if you have been misled by them saying something which is not true then you have a claim. S75 gives you a like claim against the credit card company.

[TooMany2cvs]

Durzel said:

Normally consider myself pretty savvy but hey ho...

Bought a framed canvas painting for circa £185 after exchange rate conversion (USD) from Company X. On X's website it is explicitly stated that the canvas is a limited edition, with an on-screen counter showing both a timer and how much stock they have left (<15).

Company X's website states that it'll take up to 7 days to ship because they're manufactured to order.

Within a day of ordering my order apparently shipped which raised alarm bells, especially as Company X have thus far been unable to provide any tracking information.

After doing some research today it became apparent that the print is for sale on Aliexpress.com, made by a Chinese company Y, printed rather than painted, and is obviously not a limited edition by any stretch of the imagination. It is also less than half the price on there.

Company Y also state that they send their prints by China Air Post without tracking (EMS is a cost option) which would explain why Company X is unable to provide me with anything. Evidently Company X is dropshipping Company Y's products.

I confronted Company X with this information but they have not yet responded.

I paid on credit card (habit when dealing with anyone new) - assuming it does eventually arrive do I have any shout under Section 75 for misrepresentation? This isn't a case of buyers remorse or issue with dropshipping persay - but I wouldn't have bought it if i believed it was just a print of limitless quantity and (likely) cheap quality.

EDIT: Forgot to add that I went back to Company X's website and the counter for the quantity and time remaining just resets every day - it doesn't correspond to actual stock

So what's the misrepresentation? Their stock levels?

[Durzel]

TooMany2cvs said:

So what's the misrepresentation? Their stock levels?

In a way. I liked the look of it (that hasn't changed) and was induced to buy on the strength of there only being ~30 units total available to buy. I realise and appreciate that "limited edition" is subjective, but I believed that this print was only available from this company, on a limited release (timer & stock level prominent on the page).

Again I'm only asking if this could qualify for misrepresentation - as I'm ultimately not happy that I've paid x3 the cost of the exact same thing being sold on Aliexpress.com - a well known wholesaling website.

[LaurasOtherHalf]

Durzel said:

In a way. I liked the look of it (that hasn't changed) and was induced to buy on the strength of there only being ~30 units total available to buy. I realise and appreciate that "limited edition" is subjective, but I believed that this print was only available from this company, on a limited release (timer & stock level prominent on the page).

Again I'm only asking if this could qualify for misrepresentation - as I'm ultimately not happy that I've paid x3 the cost of the exact same thing being sold on Aliexpress.com - a well known wholesaling website.

I purchased a MINI GP2 on the basis that they were releasing 200 for the UK. After selling out they brought in another 100 and I did get in touch with them and they fobbed me off.

Tossers. Happens all the time I'd expect.

[somejohn]

I may be mistaken, but wouldn't a purchase from a presumedly US-based company ('Company X', accepting payment in US$) make UK-based legislation totally irrelevant? It specifies that you might have a claim against the credit card company, but I would be very surprised if it's possible to enforce UK legislation on a company based elsewhere in the world. It sounds more like buyers remorse than anything else, having discovered it elsewhere cheaper. Whilst your credit card company may well agree to cover your purchase costs, I suspect it would be more in order to placate you as their customer than for any actual legal obligation.

Naturally, this is all just commentary from an uninformed bystander but it does also strike me that you would be on questionable grounds regarding misrepresentation, at least from the way you have described it. Have you ever checked Aliexpress for anything else you might have ever purchased, either online or even on the high street? It's not exactly uncommon practice to buy-cheap/sell-high and - as you said - Aliexpress is a well-known wholesaling website, through which a large portion of the stuff you buy is traded.

I should say though: it's a bit silly of the seller not to include any sort of tracking on a high-value - international - purchase.. How would they be able to prove that you ever actually received it..?

[Durzel]

somejohn said:

I may be mistaken, but wouldn't a purchase from a presumedly US-based company ('Company X', accepting payment in US$) make UK-based legislation totally irrelevant? It specifies that you might have a claim against the credit card company, but I would be very surprised if it's possible to enforce UK legislation on a company based elsewhere in the world.

Section 75 does apply to foreign transactions.

somejohn said:

It sounds more like buyers remorse than anything else, having discovered it elsewhere cheaper. Whilst your credit card company may well agree to cover your purchase costs, I suspect it would be more in order to placate you as their customer than for any actual legal obligation.

Naturally, this is all just commentary from an uninformed bystander but it does also strike me that you would be on questionable grounds regarding misrepresentation, at least from the way you have described it. Have you ever checked Aliexpress for anything else you might have ever purchased, either online or even on the high street? It's not exactly uncommon practice to buy-cheap/sell-high and - as you said - Aliexpress is a well-known wholesaling website, through which a large portion of the stuff you buy is traded.

The buyers remorse isn't the fact that I regret the purchase as such, moreover that I bought it in no small part because I believed it was a limited edition item, made by the company I was buying it from. They overtly state that they make them themselves, and the product page had a visual countdown for both stock level and time before (presumably) it would cease to be sold.

I don't think it is entirely unreasonable to be unhappy with buying something that is sold as limited edition, but is actually the complete opposite. There is some value - a subjective amount of course - to owning something that you believe is limited in numbers, particularly with art. I would not have objected to paying the amount I did for it, even if it only cost them 1/3 of that to make, if they were genuinely the only place that were selling it. As it is - it's both cheap and limitless in supply.

It intuitively feels like misrepresentation as a matter of fact, but I obviously have some bias, hence why I thought I'd ask on here.

somejohn said:

I should say though: it's a bit silly of the seller not to include any sort of tracking on a high-value - international - purchase.. How would they be able to prove that you ever actually received it..?

If they're buying it from this seller on Aliexpress - they offer free worldwide delivery but with no tracking, with an upgrade available to EMS shipping. I suspect the company I bought it from just went with the free shipping option when dropshipping it to me.

[somejohn]

Durzel said:

Section 75 does apply to foreign transactions.

It sure does, but only in as far as your credit card company's liability, not against the company making the sale. Hence, the credit card company would need to ensure that they actually are liable, which leaves you on the shaky grounds of trying to demonstrate misrepresentation. They may just opt to take it on the chin in order to keep you - their customer - happy.

Durzel said:

I suspect the company I bought it from just went with the free shipping option when dropshipping it to me.

As I say: a silly practice on their part. International shipping can be notoriously unreliable. Without any tracking details they - or anybody else - have no way of knowing (or proving) whether the item actually ever arrives. Hopefully it will arrive with you safe and sound, but at least you know you're safely covered should it not turn up: claiming non-received items is fairly straightforward.

[TooMany2cvs]

Durzel said:

TooMany2cvs said:

So what's the misrepresentation? Their stock levels?

In a way. I liked the look of it (that hasn't changed) and was induced to buy on the strength of there only being ~30 units total available to buy.

For all you know, that's all the stock they DID have allocated. Or that their supplier told them was available.

Durzel said:

I realise and appreciate that "limited edition" is subjective, but I believed that this print was only available from this company, on a limited release (timer & stock level prominent on the page).

Apart from that, what gave you that impression?

Durzel said:

Again I'm only asking if this could qualify for misrepresentation - as I'm ultimately not happy that I've paid x3 the cost of the exact same thing being sold on Aliexpress.com - a well known wholesaling website.

Sounds a lot like buyer remorse because you didn't do research... and that's before considering that this is a US sale, so US legislation would apply, not UK.

[Durzel]

TooMany2cvs said:

Sounds a lot like buyer remorse because you didn't do research... and that's before considering that this is a US sale, so US legislation would apply, not UK.

I wouldn't have bought it at the cheaper price if I had found it first on Aliexpress - is that clear enough?

When is there ever any definitive proof of something being limited edition besides the word of the assumed manufacturer? Whether it be cars, artwork, or anything else?

[tigger1]

somejohn said:

Hopefully it will arrive with you safe and sound, but at least you know you're safely covered should it not turn up: claiming non-received items is fairly straightforward.

Be fortuitous if it didn't ever turn up...would make things much simpler.

Where's that "scoundrel" emoji gone?

[Magic919]

Sounds like you were misled by their claims and were induced to buy based on untruths. You should tell them you want your money back and fall back on the credit card company otherwise.

[wibblebrain]

Durzel said:

Bought a framed canvas painting for circa £185 after exchange rate conversion (USD) from Company X. On X's website it is explicitly stated that the canvas is a limited edition

OK so you bought a framed canvas painting........

Durzel said:

the print is for sale on Aliexpress.com

So Aliexpress are selling a print of the same painting for less money........

Maybe you are getting your knickers in a twis over nothing? Perhaps you bought a canvas printed item and the Aliexpress one is essentially a poster?

[boyse7en]

Escapegoat said:

Durzel said:

... the canvas is a limited edition, ... printed rather than painted,

All limited editions are printed rather than painted, no? I can't see an artist painting 100-off by hand!

There are production lines of artists painting popular scenes for "original" oil paintings - one does the base colours, next adds some detail, etc...
They can churn that out pretty quick then.

[Durzel]

wibblebrain said:

So Aliexpress are selling a print of the same painting for less money........

Maybe you are getting your knickers in a twis over nothing? Perhaps you bought a canvas printed item and the Aliexpress one is essentially a poster?

I found the exact photo of the canvas that the company is using on their website also on Aliexpress using via a reverse image search (Tineye). This is what led me to the Aliexpress link in the first place. I ought to have done this before I suppose, I concede that.

Once I found the Aliexpress page it was obvious the Chinese company's terms (and other images of the framing process, etc) were identical to that of the company I bought from, and also replicated verbatim in part on their website. The available sizes of the canvas were also identical, etc.

There was more information about the canvas on Aliexpress - i.e. that it was printed, not painted, and obviously not limited edition, etc. The company I bought it from didn't dispute this when I confronted them with this information.

Incidentally as I write this it appears the company I bought it from has issued me with a refund?... or so it would seem, it's not yet reflected in my credit card account though. This is in spite of the fact that they'd told me it was shipped? Odd.

Edited by Durzel on Thursday 21st July 14:09

[boyse7en]

Durzel said:

I found the image of the canvas that the company is using via a reverse image search (Tineye). Ought to have done this before I suppose, I accept that. Once I found the Aliexpress.com link it was obvious the Chinese company's terms (and other images of the framing process, etc) were identical to that of the company I bought from. The available sizes of the canvas were also identical, etc.

There was more information about the canvas on Aliexpress - i.e. that it was printed, not painted, and obviously not limited edition, etc. The company I bought it from didn't dispute this when I confronted them with this information.

Incidentally as I write this it appears the company I bought it from has issued me with a refund?... or so it would seem, it's not yet reflected in my credit card account though. This is in spite of the fact that they'd told me it was shipped? Odd.

I don't understand. If you have ordered a hand painted canvas, and receive a print, surely that is the issue of misrepresentation rather than the fairly vague "limited edition" status?

[Durzel]

boyse7en said:

I don't understand. If you have ordered a hand painted canvas, and receive a print, surely that is the issue of misrepresentation rather than the fairly vague "limited edition" status?

True. I haven't yet received it though so can't speak for its quality or printed vs painted, but the limited edition aspect isn't in dispute as of right now.