Suing a sole trader - Do I sue the company or person?
Discussion
Ok, I'll keep this as brief as I can.
I purchased a car, from a trader who trades mid-range vehicles from home. Letter headed paper, all above board from what I can tell.
Car breaks down on day one and again a few weeks later. For several months I've been embroiled in a dispute over liability for repairs.
It's gotten to a point where I am now suing, via MoneyClaim Online for repairs and costs incurred to me. I am comfortable with what I am suing for and the legalities behind the Consumer Rights Act - I intend to represent myself, to keep costs down.
So, I completed the paperwork, suing the company name "****** Trade Cars".
I receive a text from the trader, asking me to change the defenders name to "Firstname Lastname t/a ****** Trade Cars". I wonder why she has volunteered this information freely but I have started to look into it, it seems she's right.
However.
I notice today, when doing some due diligence checking that she has filed to strike off the company (evidence below):
06 Sep 2016 First Gazette notice for voluntary strike-off
28 Aug 2016 Application to strike the company off the register
09 Aug 2016 Appointment of ***************** as a director on 27 November 2015
09 Aug 2016 Termination of appointment of ***************** as a director on 1 August 2016
09 Aug 2016 Termination of appointment of ***************** as a director on 1 August 2016
Can anyone let me know if she's right in her advice to change the defendant name, or if she's trying to wriggle out of things by now striking off said company.
I do not have a lot of money (and therefore can't really afford to engage a lawyer), I do not wish to incur huge costs but I am confident that I'll win.
I purchased a car, from a trader who trades mid-range vehicles from home. Letter headed paper, all above board from what I can tell.
Car breaks down on day one and again a few weeks later. For several months I've been embroiled in a dispute over liability for repairs.
It's gotten to a point where I am now suing, via MoneyClaim Online for repairs and costs incurred to me. I am comfortable with what I am suing for and the legalities behind the Consumer Rights Act - I intend to represent myself, to keep costs down.
So, I completed the paperwork, suing the company name "****** Trade Cars".
I receive a text from the trader, asking me to change the defenders name to "Firstname Lastname t/a ****** Trade Cars". I wonder why she has volunteered this information freely but I have started to look into it, it seems she's right.
However.
I notice today, when doing some due diligence checking that she has filed to strike off the company (evidence below):
06 Sep 2016 First Gazette notice for voluntary strike-off
28 Aug 2016 Application to strike the company off the register
09 Aug 2016 Appointment of ***************** as a director on 27 November 2015
09 Aug 2016 Termination of appointment of ***************** as a director on 1 August 2016
09 Aug 2016 Termination of appointment of ***************** as a director on 1 August 2016
Can anyone let me know if she's right in her advice to change the defendant name, or if she's trying to wriggle out of things by now striking off said company.
I do not have a lot of money (and therefore can't really afford to engage a lawyer), I do not wish to incur huge costs but I am confident that I'll win.
If they're a sole trader, then there is no "company". Their business activities cannot be separated from their own finances. You bought it off them, personally. They might have used a trading name, but that's no more than just a sign they put up.
So, yes, you claim from the individual.
If there's a company to strike off, then there's a limited company of which they are/were a director - so no "sole trader".
So, yes, you claim from the individual.
If there's a company to strike off, then there's a limited company of which they are/were a director - so no "sole trader".
TooMany2cvs said:
If they're a sole trader, then there is no "company". Their business activities cannot be separated from their own finances. You bought it off them, personally. They might have used a trading name, but that's no more than just a sign they put up.
So, yes, you claim from the individual.
If there's a company to strike off, then there's a limited company of which they are/were a director - so no "sole trader".
What 2CV's says.So, yes, you claim from the individual.
If there's a company to strike off, then there's a limited company of which they are/were a director - so no "sole trader".
You mention Directors in the first post. Is this a limited company? You're going to have to check before you sue. Odd that she's down as a Director if she's a "sole trader".
Hmm, looking at Companies House, it suggests a Ltd company that she's now trying to have stricken off, it was her specifically that told me she was a sole trader.
Checking the sales invoice it states "Firstname Lastname t/a ****** Trade Cars" implying she's a sole trader, so why is there a Ltd Company of the same name, that's now being stricken off!?
Checking the sales invoice it states "Firstname Lastname t/a ****** Trade Cars" implying she's a sole trader, so why is there a Ltd Company of the same name, that's now being stricken off!?
Edited by Rich n Em on Wednesday 7th September 14:57
superlightr said:
as others have said you are suing first/lastname ta whatevercars. So its against the person directly and nothing to do with a ltd co. also as evidenced by the sale invoice/receipt.
on the sales invoice is there a ltd co number? when you paid who did you pay to?
Sales invoice has no reference to Ltd Company. Bank says paid to "****** Trade Cars".on the sales invoice is there a ltd co number? when you paid who did you pay to?
I think the Ltd is a red herring, albeit an odd one. Sadly it means I have to incur a £100 charge to change the defendants name to "first/last t/a..."
Nanook said:
Rich n Em said:
Hmm, looking at Companies House, it suggests a Ltd company that she's now trying to have stricken off, it was her specifically that told me she was a sole trader.
Checking the sales invoice it states "Firstname Lastname t/a ****** Trade Cars" implying she's a sole trader, so why is there a Ltd Company of the same name, that's now being stricken off!?
Because she lied to you, and it trying to wriggle out of it now.Checking the sales invoice it states "Firstname Lastname t/a ****** Trade Cars" implying she's a sole trader, so why is there a Ltd Company of the same name, that's now being stricken off!?
deckster said:
Seems like the opposite. If she were trying to wriggle out of it, then she would be trying to get the defendant changed to a Ltd co. that she could then wind up. By changing to her personally (whether t/a or not), she's putting herself firmly in the firing line.
Yes, this is my understanding too - just seems odd.Nanook said:
Our OP raises paperwork against her, she says "That's not right, I'm a trader, I had a ltd company, but it doesn't exist anymore"
OP has no leg to stand on.
If she told him she had a ltd company, he'd perhaps have foresaw this and hurried up, as things stand, she's feeding him duff info to delay proceedings until such times as the ltd company no longer exists, and she's off the hook.
That was my initial thought, except (based on what we are told) the invoice for the sale in question is from her individually, not the Limited Company. OP has no leg to stand on.
If she told him she had a ltd company, he'd perhaps have foresaw this and hurried up, as things stand, she's feeding him duff info to delay proceedings until such times as the ltd company no longer exists, and she's off the hook.
LordHaveMurci said:
I believe you can contact Companies House & request the striking off order be abandoned or at least postponed if you explain your legitimate reasons why.
Seem to recall we have done this in the past when chasing a bad debt.
This I had to do it against someone who wound up his company whilst I had a large CCj against them, having won in small claims court. Trouble is I never got the money, person just moved premises setup again with all the assets from the previous company, including my goods he sold to someone else.Seem to recall we have done this in the past when chasing a bad debt.
Rich n Em said:
Sales invoice has no reference to Ltd Company. Bank says paid to "****** Trade Cars".
I think the Ltd is a red herring, albeit an odd one. Sadly it means I have to incur a £100 charge to change the defendants name to "first/last t/a..."
I don't think you do. Keep it in their name. its correct. You are still taking the person to court so the persons name is correct to list as the defendant. They can be identified its not a separate legal entity as a company is. Its very strange for the defendant to tell you to alter the claim - I don't believe them. Keep it as it is just in their name. its a red hearing whatever they are trading as its still a sole trader/self employed person and its the person you are making the claim against. I think the Ltd is a red herring, albeit an odd one. Sadly it means I have to incur a £100 charge to change the defendants name to "first/last t/a..."
Edited by superlightr on Wednesday 7th September 16:34
Sorry for any confusion. Let me clarify.
Purchased car from trader who works from home, sales invoice says "Firstname Lastname t/a ****** Trade Cars". Shows up on bank statement as "***** Trade Cars".
When I filled in paperwork form MoneyClaim Online, I selected sue a company (as opposed to an individual) and put the company name as "****** Trade Cars". At this point I did not know the difference between sole trader and ltd company.
I receive a text message from the trader asking for me to change the defendant name to "Firstname Lastname t/a ****** Trade Cars" as she is a sole trader. There is a cost for this of £100 (unrecoverable).
Doing some due diligence work, I find the company name "****** Trade Cars" on Companies House, with the trader registered as the director - it also shows that she is striking off the company, proceedings starting almost to the day that she receives the court papers.
Further investigation shows that I should be using "Firstname Lastname t/a ****** Trade Cars" but I'm just making sure that the Ltd company and her asking me to change the name are not in some way going to damage my claim.
Purchased car from trader who works from home, sales invoice says "Firstname Lastname t/a ****** Trade Cars". Shows up on bank statement as "***** Trade Cars".
When I filled in paperwork form MoneyClaim Online, I selected sue a company (as opposed to an individual) and put the company name as "****** Trade Cars". At this point I did not know the difference between sole trader and ltd company.
I receive a text message from the trader asking for me to change the defendant name to "Firstname Lastname t/a ****** Trade Cars" as she is a sole trader. There is a cost for this of £100 (unrecoverable).
Doing some due diligence work, I find the company name "****** Trade Cars" on Companies House, with the trader registered as the director - it also shows that she is striking off the company, proceedings starting almost to the day that she receives the court papers.
Further investigation shows that I should be using "Firstname Lastname t/a ****** Trade Cars" but I'm just making sure that the Ltd company and her asking me to change the name are not in some way going to damage my claim.
I suppose that she could be operating in the mistaken belief that the limited company sold the car and that the liabilities of "Firstname Lastname t/a ****** Trade Cars" will disappear when "****** Trade Cars Ltd" is dissolved.
It sounds a little odd, but the alternative is that she is actually helping you sue her! Though reconsidering - perhaps that is the answer? She is confident that she can defend your claim so wants to get the case underway (and increase your fees at the same time)?
It sounds a little odd, but the alternative is that she is actually helping you sue her! Though reconsidering - perhaps that is the answer? She is confident that she can defend your claim so wants to get the case underway (and increase your fees at the same time)?
Rich n Em said:
Sorry for any confusion. Let me clarify.
Purchased car from trader who works from home, sales invoice says "Firstname Lastname t/a ****** Trade Cars". Shows up on bank statement as "***** Trade Cars".
When I filled in paperwork form MoneyClaim Online, I selected sue a company (as opposed to an individual) and put the company name as "****** Trade Cars". At this point I did not know the difference between sole trader and ltd company.
I receive a text message from the trader asking for me to change the defendant name to "Firstname Lastname t/a ****** Trade Cars" as she is a sole trader. There is a cost for this of £100 (unrecoverable).
Doing some due diligence work, I find the company name "****** Trade Cars" on Companies House, with the trader registered as the director - it also shows that she is striking off the company, proceedings starting almost to the day that she receives the court papers.
Further investigation shows that I should be using "Firstname Lastname t/a ****** Trade Cars" but I'm just making sure that the Ltd company and her asking me to change the name are not in some way going to damage my claim.
I'd be interested to know, does the invoice say "Firstname Lastname t/a ****** Trade Cars" or "Firstname Lastname t/a ****** Trade Cars Ltd"? Does "Ltd" appear on the invoice anywhere?Purchased car from trader who works from home, sales invoice says "Firstname Lastname t/a ****** Trade Cars". Shows up on bank statement as "***** Trade Cars".
When I filled in paperwork form MoneyClaim Online, I selected sue a company (as opposed to an individual) and put the company name as "****** Trade Cars". At this point I did not know the difference between sole trader and ltd company.
I receive a text message from the trader asking for me to change the defendant name to "Firstname Lastname t/a ****** Trade Cars" as she is a sole trader. There is a cost for this of £100 (unrecoverable).
Doing some due diligence work, I find the company name "****** Trade Cars" on Companies House, with the trader registered as the director - it also shows that she is striking off the company, proceedings starting almost to the day that she receives the court papers.
Further investigation shows that I should be using "Firstname Lastname t/a ****** Trade Cars" but I'm just making sure that the Ltd company and her asking me to change the name are not in some way going to damage my claim.
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