Buyer's Rights?
Discussion
Evening all,
Could you point me in the right direction re. any legal rights my dad may have with a recent car purchase please.
Long story short, he bought a used car privately, paid cash, sold as seen etc. etc.
While investigating a blown dash bulb, he found a sticker covering the ECU and handbrake light, that had obviously been covered to hide a balancer shaft issue that it transpires the car had developed at some point in the past (through further investigation with the manufacturer-specific garage / dealer that had worked on the car in the past).
Citizens Advise have advise that he is entitled to a full refund (including and costs) from the private seller but from what I can find on the webs, that would only really apply if the car was bought from a dealer.
He has tried to discuss the issue on the phone with the seller but they have refused to discuss the matter over the phone. So it seems the next option would be to contact a solicitor but that's obviously where he starts to incur costs, that he'd really rather avoid.
If you've got this far, thanks for reading and any advice would be gratefully received.
Cheers
Could you point me in the right direction re. any legal rights my dad may have with a recent car purchase please.
Long story short, he bought a used car privately, paid cash, sold as seen etc. etc.
While investigating a blown dash bulb, he found a sticker covering the ECU and handbrake light, that had obviously been covered to hide a balancer shaft issue that it transpires the car had developed at some point in the past (through further investigation with the manufacturer-specific garage / dealer that had worked on the car in the past).
Citizens Advise have advise that he is entitled to a full refund (including and costs) from the private seller but from what I can find on the webs, that would only really apply if the car was bought from a dealer.
He has tried to discuss the issue on the phone with the seller but they have refused to discuss the matter over the phone. So it seems the next option would be to contact a solicitor but that's obviously where he starts to incur costs, that he'd really rather avoid.
If you've got this far, thanks for reading and any advice would be gratefully received.
Cheers
Hate to say it but live and learn
Private seller = assumed no car knowledge - if it came to it they could just say they know nothing and the balance would be on you to prove it - not necessarily possible and they may have no assets you could force payment against - very, very small chance of success
If you buy a car privately you need to be able to pick up on things like this - hate to say it but chalk it to experience, fix and move on
Private seller = assumed no car knowledge - if it came to it they could just say they know nothing and the balance would be on you to prove it - not necessarily possible and they may have no assets you could force payment against - very, very small chance of success
If you buy a car privately you need to be able to pick up on things like this - hate to say it but chalk it to experience, fix and move on
Thanks for the quick reply.
So the top and bottom of it is; the seller must have have known about the fault and / or intentionally acted to deceive AND you need to be able to prove this to have any chance of any comeback?
There is another small twist to the tale that is, while investigating the car's past (unfortunately after the dash light sticker was found), the dealer that sold the car to the person my dad bought the car from, offered to buy the car back from him when the sticker etc. was mentioned.
This has obviously raised certain suspicions (based on certain assumptions) but I would assume that to pursue anything down this avenue would require a contract between that party and my dad, which there isn't?
So the top and bottom of it is; the seller must have have known about the fault and / or intentionally acted to deceive AND you need to be able to prove this to have any chance of any comeback?
There is another small twist to the tale that is, while investigating the car's past (unfortunately after the dash light sticker was found), the dealer that sold the car to the person my dad bought the car from, offered to buy the car back from him when the sticker etc. was mentioned.
This has obviously raised certain suspicions (based on certain assumptions) but I would assume that to pursue anything down this avenue would require a contract between that party and my dad, which there isn't?
It's a 2006 car, paid around £5k for it.
Unfortunately nothing was noticed on viewing / test drive.
I suppose it's one of those things, you switch the ignition on, 'some' dash lights illuminate and then go off when the engine is started. Your mind is probably more focused on listening for any strange noises etc.
He's looking at approx. £2.5k to get the work done, so we're not talking life-changing sums of money but still a kick in the balls.
Unfortunately nothing was noticed on viewing / test drive.
I suppose it's one of those things, you switch the ignition on, 'some' dash lights illuminate and then go off when the engine is started. Your mind is probably more focused on listening for any strange noises etc.
He's looking at approx. £2.5k to get the work done, so we're not talking life-changing sums of money but still a kick in the balls.
roboxm3 said:
Thanks for the quick reply.
There is another small twist to the tale that is, while investigating the car's past (unfortunately after the dash light sticker was found), the dealer that sold the car to the person my dad bought the car from, offered to buy the car back from him when the sticker etc. was mentioned.
Am I missing something - the seller knew of the fault? Surely if he knew and didn't advise then he misrepresented.There is another small twist to the tale that is, while investigating the car's past (unfortunately after the dash light sticker was found), the dealer that sold the car to the person my dad bought the car from, offered to buy the car back from him when the sticker etc. was mentioned.
Problem is proving it. Can/will the garage confirm in writing they advised seller?
trevt said:
Am I missing something - the seller knew of the fault? Surely if he knew and didn't advise then he misrepresented.
Problem is proving it. Can/will the garage confirm in writing they advised seller?
He only misrepresented it if he said 'no warning lights lit on dash, car is 100% mechanically sound'Problem is proving it. Can/will the garage confirm in writing they advised seller?
roboxm3 said:
Evening all,
Citizens Advise have advise that he is entitled to a full refund (including and costs) from the private seller but from what I can find on the webs, that would only really apply if the car was bought from a dealer.
This sounds like pretty poor advice, and you're right to view it with suspicion.Citizens Advise have advise that he is entitled to a full refund (including and costs) from the private seller but from what I can find on the webs, that would only really apply if the car was bought from a dealer.
Is the handbrake light separate from the light which indicates low brake fluid? If they're one and the same, a non-functional fluid level warning light should fail an MOT, and so hint that the bodge was put in place after the last test, but obviously is no guarantee at all.
JM said:
Did the seller misrepresent the vehicle in the advert?
Please don't start with this nonsense again - its a private sale on a 10 yr old car, the seller was not a dealer therefore not an expert on selling cars. The buyer has to take responsibility for checking the car out before paying.A private seller is never going to be done for misrepresenting their own car sale unless its something black and white like 'no accidents' but in fact it was a Cat B/C/D or two cars welded together, or stating low mileage 1 owners and in fact it was 200,000 miles and they clocked it back to 50k miles last week and its had 9 owners.
rallycross said:
JM said:
Did the seller misrepresent the vehicle in the advert?
Please don't start with this nonsense again - its a private sale on a 10 yr old car, the seller was not a dealer therefore not an expert on selling cars. The buyer has to take responsibility for checking the car out before paying.A private seller is never going to be done for misrepresenting their own car sale unless its something black and white like 'no accidents' but in fact it was a Cat B/C/D or two cars welded together, or stating low mileage 1 owners and in fact it was 200,000 miles and they clocked it back to 50k miles last week and its had 9 owners.
Even asking a private seller "does the car have any faults?" is a pointless question to some degree.
I don't know how many times it has to be said, but when buying privately, assume the worst and prepare to find stuff wrong with the car and have to fix it.
If you can't stomach that, then buy from a dealer where you will have some recourse, but not much.
Many people sell cars because they have something wrong with them or are about to have something wrong with them. And yet continually people are shocked to find that the car they have bought has something wrong with it...
We've all bought a lemon or a complete s
tbox at some point, and we've just had to take it up the arse.Thanks for all the replies.
I suspected that Citizens Advice had misinformed him, hence asking in here for a bit of clarification.
To answer a couple of the questions; the manufacturer-specific garage have told him that the fault being hidden is a not uncommon balancer shaft issue. Something re. the gears at the end of the shaft and there is a replacement kit that has hardened items.
They quoted £5k as I believe it's an engine out and strip down job but he's been quoted £2.5k by a guy he regularly uses.
The previous owner had the car for just over 12months and may or may not have been aware of the fault prior to selling but as had been mentioned before a) it's a private sale and b) you'd never prove any intent to deceive etc. anyway.
I think his only option is to speak with the dealer again (the one that sold the car to the person he bought it off) and see what they're prepared to offer. It does seem suspect that they're even offering anything, as used car salesmen aren't renowned for their acts of charity but if it gets him somewhere near square one again, it's probably the way to go.
Generally, as a family, we've always bought and sold privately, cars, bikes etc. and never really been stung / caught out, so probably just to chalk it up to experience and get the matter resolved one way or another ASAP.
I suspected that Citizens Advice had misinformed him, hence asking in here for a bit of clarification.
To answer a couple of the questions; the manufacturer-specific garage have told him that the fault being hidden is a not uncommon balancer shaft issue. Something re. the gears at the end of the shaft and there is a replacement kit that has hardened items.
They quoted £5k as I believe it's an engine out and strip down job but he's been quoted £2.5k by a guy he regularly uses.
The previous owner had the car for just over 12months and may or may not have been aware of the fault prior to selling but as had been mentioned before a) it's a private sale and b) you'd never prove any intent to deceive etc. anyway.
I think his only option is to speak with the dealer again (the one that sold the car to the person he bought it off) and see what they're prepared to offer. It does seem suspect that they're even offering anything, as used car salesmen aren't renowned for their acts of charity but if it gets him somewhere near square one again, it's probably the way to go.
Generally, as a family, we've always bought and sold privately, cars, bikes etc. and never really been stung / caught out, so probably just to chalk it up to experience and get the matter resolved one way or another ASAP.
Edited by roboxm3 on Wednesday 5th October 10:07
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