Dart charge penalty idiocy

[4Q]

A bit of background.

My daughter emigrated to the U.S. In October of last year and left her car with me to sell for her, which I sold in January of this year. I sent the v5 off to the DVLA and thought nothing more of it.

Fast forward to Sept of this year and her mum informs me that she's had a few official looking letters through the door for her (the car was registered at her address), but hadn't opened them, did I want to give them to her when I visit in a couple of months!!?

It turns out they were for non-payment of RFL/not SORNing and a Dart Charge for a crossing made in July 2016 and that there was a penalty for not paying the charge. Obviously the DVLA hadn't received the V5 so not changed the keeper. I didn't know this because any acknowledgement would have gone to her mothers anyway. I've since written to the DVLA who've now acknowledge the letter but won't amend the details unless the new owner acknowledges the change too. Btw the car hasn't been taxed since it ran out in March.

I called the Dart Charge number up and they were quite helpful, telling me she needed to appeal online, which I duly did explaining the above. However she received a letter yesterday (sent to her mothers again), stating that as she didn't appeal within 28 days, she's liable for the penalty and threatening to send bailiffs.

What are the next steps to resolve this as I've already used their appeals process?

[XCP]

Explain that the keeper has emigrated, and that all enquiries should be sent to the US. That should put a stop to it.

[Hol]

If you also explain that it's actually yourself that made the mistake and not your daughter, they may be more sympathetic to her predicament.

After all, she did nothing wrong.

[WinstonWolf]

No one made a mistake if the V5 was posted, that is all you are required to do in law. The DVLA seem to fail to process quite a few keeper changes.

[Red Devil]

4Q said:

I called the Dart Charge number up and they were quite helpful, telling me she needed to appeal online, which I duly did explaining the above. However she received a letter yesterday (sent to her mothers again), stating that as she didn't appeal within 28 days, she's liable for the penalty and threatening to send bailiffs.

The Dart Charge people are a bit dim. As your daughter is no longer resident in the UK the threat is meaningless and the bailiff will be wasting their time and money. No levy can be made on her mother's goods as she is not the debtor.

XCP said:

Explain that the keeper has emigrated, and that all enquiries should be sent to the US. That should put a stop to it.

^^This^^

The V5C is a separate issue. It's bizarre that the DVLA are being so obstructive. It suggests that the buyer has not applied for a new V5C in their name. If so, there could be other potential issues lurking in the background (e.g. parking tickets and/or a speed camera NIP). If they have applied for one then the DVLA should have written to your daughter about it, but of course she wouldn't have received that either. In the absence of any objection by her a V5C would have been issued to the new RK. If the DVLA continues to be difficult about this you may need to contact the buyer to get it sorted.

[4rephill]

WinstonWolf said:

No one made a mistake if the V5 was posted, that is all you are required to do in law. The DVLA seem to fail to process quite a few keeper changes.

It's always the DVLA's fault then? - There's no chance the V5's could have possibly been lost in the post?

[WinstonWolf]

4rephill said:

WinstonWolf said:

No one made a mistake if the V5 was posted, that is all you are required to do in law. The DVLA seem to fail to process quite a few keeper changes.

It's always the DVLA's fault then? - There's no chance the V5's could have possibly been lost in the post?

No, sometimes it's the Royal Mail, however once you place the V5 in the postbox you have done all that is required of you in law.

[Drumroll]

Maybe it has, (been lost in the post) but the OP did all that is legally required to do. The system is not fit for purpose

[Red Devil]

Posting the V5C to Swansea is so 20th Century. - https://www.gov.uk/sold-bought-vehicle/y/no/sold-i...

[gus607]

I'm sure the DVLA send an acknowedgement when they receive the V5 confirming change of ownership ? That way there is no if's & but's.

[Slidingpillar]

gus607 said:

I'm sure the DVLA send an acknowedgement when they receive the V5 confirming change of ownership ? That way there is no if's & but's.

They do... And claim that if you've not heard anything after four weeks, to ring them. But, after four weeks, are you going to remember? And anyway, as long you've posted the V5c remains there is no obligation on you to do anything more. Sure they'll say that isn't the case, but bully boy tactics and 'fining' you for their problem seems to be par for the course.

[4Q]

Slidingpillar said:

They do... And claim that if you've not heard anything after four weeks, to ring them. But, after four weeks, are you going to remember? And anyway, as long you've posted the V5c remains there is no obligation on you to do anything more. Sure they'll say that isn't the case, but bully boy tactics and 'fining' you for their problem seems to be par for the course.

I didn't look out for confirmation as per my earlier comment it would've cgone to my ex wife's address anyway. It definitely was posted and I have proof of posting (although I've had an argument in the past with the DVLA about missing documents even when sent registered mail).

Anyway this isn't really an issue. The main one is the inflexibility/idiocy of dart charge. Maybe they can't chase whilst she's living in America, and although she has no plans to come back, what if she does in a couple of years? She didn't drive over the crossing, didn't own the car, wasn't even in the country so couldn't possibly reply or appeal within the 28 day window but they can't seem to grasp this fairly simple fact.

[funkyrobot]

Red Devil said:

Posting the V5C to Swansea is so 20th Century. - https://www.gov.uk/sold-bought-vehicle/y/no/sold-i...

I used that for my vehicle yesterday.

[blueg33]

Slidingpillar said:

gus607 said:

I'm sure the DVLA send an acknowedgement when they receive the V5 confirming change of ownership ? That way there is no if's & but's.

They do... And claim that if you've not heard anything after four weeks, to ring them. But, after four weeks, are you going to remember? And anyway, as long you've posted the V5c remains there is no obligation on you to do anything more. Sure they'll say that isn't the case, but bully boy tactics and 'fining' you for their problem seems to be par for the course.

I am old and stupid but cam remember I sold a car after 4 weeks.

But, DVLA do have form on this though.

[Hol]

4Q said:

I called the Dart Charge number up and they were quite helpful, telling me she needed to appeal online, which I duly did explaining the above. However she received a letter yesterday (sent to her mothers again), stating that as she didn't appeal within 28 days, she's liable for the penalty and threatening to send bailiffs.

Did you appeal online in her name (as if it was her appealing), or in your name as her father?


My 18yo son had a parking ticket overturned recently due to a overlap between his residents permit at student digs being issued and the traffic warden having his vehicle details on his 'approved list'.

But the point is that HE had to appeal and we as parents could not do so for him (unless we pretended to be him).

[4Q]

I pretended to be her as she couldn't access the site from Florida. Obviously they've no intention of chasing foreigners but that's a whole other thread