Need some help please, court action
Discussion
It seems as though my wife is being charged with two driving offenses, both of which are my fault.
The first one is due to failing to give information relating to the identification of the driver of a vehicle who was alleged to have been guilty of an offence and the second for exceeding the 30mph speed limit.
I am guilty of both offenses as i was returning from marathon training in the morning in the car. The charge for the identification of the drive is a little odd as i am sure i replied to the original letter citing it was me. However it is what it is!
Would anyone know what the likely outcome will be and if there is anyway i can help myself to minimize the damage. I think i am already on 6-points and although not reliant on my car would find it a hindrance travelling for family.
Thank you for help and this would not be PH if i didn't thank people for the abuse which is heading my way.
The first one is due to failing to give information relating to the identification of the driver of a vehicle who was alleged to have been guilty of an offence and the second for exceeding the 30mph speed limit.
I am guilty of both offenses as i was returning from marathon training in the morning in the car. The charge for the identification of the drive is a little odd as i am sure i replied to the original letter citing it was me. However it is what it is!
Would anyone know what the likely outcome will be and if there is anyway i can help myself to minimize the damage. I think i am already on 6-points and although not reliant on my car would find it a hindrance travelling for family.
Thank you for help and this would not be PH if i didn't thank people for the abuse which is heading my way.
The notice was for your wife to fill out, not you. Did you fill out and sign the form in your name stating that you were the driver, or did you get your own form? More importantly, did you send it by recorded or special delivery?
If she didn't sign the form she's technically guilty. But there may be a way out.
The Code for Crown Prosecutors states that the CPS must have sufficient evidence to secure a reasonable prospect of conviction. Now, for a speeding case that's the camera evidence and some evidence of who the driver is. It seems clear that they don't know who the driver is so there's no reasonable prospect of conviction on the basis of the evidence they have in their hands.
When I used this gambit:
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=1565...
I'd cleared the speeding charge out of the way and had a written notice of discontinuation for it from the CPS. If you can get to that point you could run the same defence (offence really) that I did, which is going after the CPS bod responsible for making the charging decision and attempting to get an answer from them as a witness up in front of the magistrates as to why they have either not understood the most important document in their job, or just chosen to ignore it.
If you can do that they'll probably fold like they did for me...
If she didn't sign the form she's technically guilty. But there may be a way out.
The Code for Crown Prosecutors states that the CPS must have sufficient evidence to secure a reasonable prospect of conviction. Now, for a speeding case that's the camera evidence and some evidence of who the driver is. It seems clear that they don't know who the driver is so there's no reasonable prospect of conviction on the basis of the evidence they have in their hands.
When I used this gambit:
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=1565...
I'd cleared the speeding charge out of the way and had a written notice of discontinuation for it from the CPS. If you can get to that point you could run the same defence (offence really) that I did, which is going after the CPS bod responsible for making the charging decision and attempting to get an answer from them as a witness up in front of the magistrates as to why they have either not understood the most important document in their job, or just chosen to ignore it.
If you can do that they'll probably fold like they did for me...
Very vague language. Facts/truth would be best. Its a 6 pointer you are looking at I think. Someone may be able to advise if you fess up for the speeding that they will drop the failing to ID Sec 172 offence. They cant do you for both - especially if you 'think' you returned it and it got lost in the post...
davepoth said:
The notice was for your wife to fill out, not you. Did you fill out and sign the form in your name stating that you were the driver, or did you get your own form? More importantly, did you send it by recorded or special delivery?
If she didn't sign the form she's technically guilty. But there may be a way out.
The Code for Crown Prosecutors states that the CPS must have sufficient evidence to secure a reasonable prospect of conviction. Now, for a speeding case that's the camera evidence and some evidence of who the driver is. It seems clear that they don't know who the driver is so there's no reasonable prospect of conviction on the basis of the evidence they have in their hands.
When I used this gambit:
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=1565...
I'd cleared the speeding charge out of the way and had a written notice of discontinuation for it from the CPS. If you can get to that point you could run the same defence (offence really) that I did, which is going after the CPS bod responsible for making the charging decision and attempting to get an answer from them as a witness up in front of the magistrates as to why they have either not understood the most important document in their job, or just chosen to ignore it.
If you can do that they'll probably fold like they did for me...
Awesome response, thank you for your help. I shall look into this.If she didn't sign the form she's technically guilty. But there may be a way out.
The Code for Crown Prosecutors states that the CPS must have sufficient evidence to secure a reasonable prospect of conviction. Now, for a speeding case that's the camera evidence and some evidence of who the driver is. It seems clear that they don't know who the driver is so there's no reasonable prospect of conviction on the basis of the evidence they have in their hands.
When I used this gambit:
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=1565...
I'd cleared the speeding charge out of the way and had a written notice of discontinuation for it from the CPS. If you can get to that point you could run the same defence (offence really) that I did, which is going after the CPS bod responsible for making the charging decision and attempting to get an answer from them as a witness up in front of the magistrates as to why they have either not understood the most important document in their job, or just chosen to ignore it.
If you can do that they'll probably fold like they did for me...
Ken Figenus said:
Very vague language. Facts/truth would be best.
+1You're "sure" you replied to the original letter. You "think" you're already on 6 points. You "think" your wife has more points.
I would second the AGTlaw recommendation but get the facts correct in your head first, note down the timeline of events etc.
Good luck.
BlackLabel said:
Ken Figenus said:
Very vague language. Facts/truth would be best.
+1You're "sure" you replied to the original letter. You "think" you're already on 6 points. You "think" your wife has more points.
I would second the AGTlaw recommendation but get the facts correct in your head first, note down the timeline of events etc.
Good luck.
AndStilliRise said:
davepoth said:
The notice was for your wife to fill out, not you. Did you fill out and sign the form in your name stating that you were the driver, or did you get your own form? More importantly, did you send it by recorded or special delivery?
If she didn't sign the form she's technically guilty. But there may be a way out.
The Code for Crown Prosecutors states that the CPS must have sufficient evidence to secure a reasonable prospect of conviction. Now, for a speeding case that's the camera evidence and some evidence of who the driver is. It seems clear that they don't know who the driver is so there's no reasonable prospect of conviction on the basis of the evidence they have in their hands.
When I used this gambit:
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=1565...
I'd cleared the speeding charge out of the way and had a written notice of discontinuation for it from the CPS. If you can get to that point you could run the same defence (offence really) that I did, which is going after the CPS bod responsible for making the charging decision and attempting to get an answer from them as a witness up in front of the magistrates as to why they have either not understood the most important document in their job, or just chosen to ignore it.
If you can do that they'll probably fold like they did for me...
Awesome response, thank you for your help. I shall look into this.If she didn't sign the form she's technically guilty. But there may be a way out.
The Code for Crown Prosecutors states that the CPS must have sufficient evidence to secure a reasonable prospect of conviction. Now, for a speeding case that's the camera evidence and some evidence of who the driver is. It seems clear that they don't know who the driver is so there's no reasonable prospect of conviction on the basis of the evidence they have in their hands.
When I used this gambit:
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=1565...
I'd cleared the speeding charge out of the way and had a written notice of discontinuation for it from the CPS. If you can get to that point you could run the same defence (offence really) that I did, which is going after the CPS bod responsible for making the charging decision and attempting to get an answer from them as a witness up in front of the magistrates as to why they have either not understood the most important document in their job, or just chosen to ignore it.
If you can do that they'll probably fold like they did for me...
If I have read it correctly, where Gwent cocked up was trying to do him for S.172 and speeding.
IIRC, the argument that a PACE statement can't be used as evidence was tossed out by the ECHR judgement in Francis/O'Halloran.
If a speeding conviction is only likely to get 3 points (or even an awareness course) then it's a better bet than 6 for S.172 failure to furnish.
BlackLabel said:
I would second the AGTlaw recommendation but get the facts correct in your head first, note down the timeline of events etc.
I'll third it. why not send him an email, mega helpful for me last month - probably busy right now although know he lurks around here when he has the time
Search his user-name in the directory (he's contactable via there) or here: http://www.counsel.direct/
Search his user-name in the directory (he's contactable via there) or here: http://www.counsel.direct/
Forums | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff