Bizzare parking ticket..

[giblets_]

Hi guys,

I had a bit of an odd situation today.

I was parked on a main road, which was always a pay and display. I paid and went about my business. I came back to see the parking warden circling my car, I thought nothing of it and got in and drove off. As I was at the traffic light, I saw him approach my car and put a ticket in the windscreen as I was about to drive off. I couldnt pull over anywhere or stop the car so I rolled my window down and questioned him to which he just shouted "this is a business permit bay now only" and scurried off to take a photo of the rear of my car.

All of this happened whilst I was in my car, on the road, driving/crawling.

Is this a valid ticket? Do I have any options here?

[TooMany2cvs]

giblets_ said:

Is this a valid ticket?

I don't know. Is it now a permit-only bay? What does the signage say now?

[giblets_]

Sadly, no.

But Im not sure if he managed to catch a photo of me IN the bay because when I came out, he was just circling the car..

It's unfortunate because the bay in question had just been changed to a business permit holders, and the bay behind me was pay and display.

but either way, chasing my car down a main road and taking a photo/placing the ticket on the windscreen WHILST im in the car and moving...Surely that can't be right?

My brother was in the car with me and can probably be a witness but I doubt it'll hold any merit.

[eybic]

I think they may have to take a picture of your car with the ticket on the screen.

[giblets_]

TooMany2cvs said:

I don't know. Is it now a permit-only bay? What does the signage say now?

It was a pay and display one but recently changed to business permit. It's unclear as there are two signs in the same place, presumably the old one hasn't been amended yet.

[anonymous-user]

All depends on where you parked and what the sign said.

A quick Google of "Business Parking Permit London" gives the individual areas/councils, you don't specify where you were so I've assumed Tower Hamlets.

http://www.towerhamlets.gov.uk/lgnl/transport_and_...

"Where you can park"

Your permit is only valid in parking bays signed:
•Business Permit Holders Only
•Business Permit Holders or Pay at Machine
•Permit Holders Only or Permit Holders or Pay at Machine.

Guessing if you parked where it says Business Permit Holders Only, would mean you'd be liable.

All depends on where you parked and what the sign said.

[giblets_]

Need to wait 24h to view the photos online.

I presume if he has no photo of me in the bay then Im fine.

Is the fact that the ticket was placed on the car in a dangerous manner not viable?

[InitialDave]

giblets_ said:

It was a pay and display one but recently changed to business permit. It's unclear as there are two signs in the same place, presumably the old one hasn't been amended yet.

Perhaps get a photo of that?

[giblets_]

Yep Ill go get a photo and pursue the normal means of contesting.

I just wanted to know if the manner in which the warden went about issuing it was worth any appeal in itself I guess

[herewego]

I don't see anything wrong with what he did. You need to check and photograph the signage and appeal if appropriate.

[ikarl]

giblets_ said:

Is the fact that the ticket was placed on the car in a dangerous manner not viable?

Do you think it would be?

He was hardly hunting you down in an Apache gunship!

[Red Devil]

giblets_ said:

But Im not sure if he managed to catch a photo of me IN the bay because when I came out, he was just circling the car..

I assume you mean your car, not you.

If he did it would need to clearly show the lack of a permit. Otherwise it's just a random photo of a random vehicle.

giblets_ said:

but either way, chasing my car down a main road and taking a photo/placing the ticket on the windscreen WHILST im in the car and moving...Surely that can't be right?

The CEO had no need to do this.* See 2.2 and 2.3 here - http://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/eat/understandin... (if its elsewhere than London Boroughs then TPT adjudicates but the rules are no different). The legislation specifically provides for service by post in the case of drive offs because 2.1 is frustrated - http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2007/3483/regul...

 * In fact he/she is a dumbass because attaching the ticket elsewhere than at the scene (i.e. the actual parking place) could easily lead to an adjudicator throwing it out. Otherwise what's to stop a CEO     fabricating a contravention and slapping a ticket on any car he/she fancies?
 
If the signage is confusing/non-compliant that may be a better angle of attack though.

[bad company]

Should have put the windscreen wipers on when he approached your car.

Good luck and don't be frightened of appealing to the tribunal. I won a case there.

[giblets_]

Update:

Checked the photos online. The warden got pictures of the car in the bay clearly but the bay looks like any other bay in a pay and display parking area. This bay had a sign above it that said "Business permit only" which was next to the pay and display sign.

However, his photo of the sign itself is completely blurred and unclear. You cannot tell anything from the photo and of all the other pictures he has of the car, the sign isn't in shot at all nor is there any indication that the car is in a business permit holders bay.

Do I have anything to go by?

[austinsmirk]

why would his poor photography matter- its a case of, on the day, could you see the sign.

btw, I do agree, it sucks. Never heard of such a stupid thing- business permit day.

[giblets_]

But in this case - Its a pay and display car park with 3-4 bays for Business use only. There's no indication they are for business use only bar a sign above the bay that says it. So no road markings at all.

The photos on the PCN "proof" show the car in A Bay, with other cars surrounding it in bays next to it. There is no indication within the photos themselves that the bay I was in, was a Business one or a Pay and display one, as it could be either, considering the premises is actually a pay and display one and I have the receipt of the paybyphone thing I did.

There is only one photo of a blurred out sign, with no view of my car at all. Other than that, all the photos are of my car in a parking bay in a pay and display.

Surely I can appeal this?

[herewego]

If I didn't understand from the sign that "Business Permit Only" meant that I would need a business permit to park there then I'd be trying to locate the Traffic Regulation order for the area to see if those spots were indeed legally reserved for business users whoever they are. Presumably certain business owners are paying for the use of that part of the public street, maybe.

[tapereel]

giblets_ said:

But in this case - Its a pay and display car park with 3-4 bays for Business use only. There's no indication they are for business use only bar a sign above the bay that says it. So no road markings at all.

The photos on the PCN "proof" show the car in A Bay, with other cars surrounding it in bays next to it. There is no indication within the photos themselves that the bay I was in, was a Business one or a Pay and display one, as it could be either, considering the premises is actually a pay and display one and I have the receipt of the paybyphone thing I did.

There is only one photo of a blurred out sign, with no view of my car at all. Other than that, all the photos are of my car in a parking bay in a pay and display.

Surely I can appeal this?

Well if the sign say "IT" you will be OK but if the sign says "BUSINESS PERMIT BAY" or something like that then that is what the bay is.
If you were confused in some way by the sign and you can show that the sign is confusing or not reasnably visible then you would have case.
Were you confused or did you simply not read the sign?
The parking enforcement officer's bad photography can be corrected by simply taking another picture of the sign.