Compensation from management company

[craigjm]

I have a flat which has been completely destroyed internally caused by a massive leak in the roof. The roof has been neglected in the past by the management company and has now caused an insurance claim to completely renovate the flat I own. It has destroyed the subfloor so needs new floors, new ceilings, new bathroom and kitchen and everywhere redecorated. Massive claim as you can imagine and as part of that they are rehousing the tenant in a hotel.

Work is slipping and as such they will be out for a minimum 3 months based on projections.

What right does the tenant have to claim for meals and laundry etc as they have been put up in a hotel without the facility to cook and clean?
What other things could the tenant claim for as part of the claim?
Can they claim their rent payable to me from the insurance or can I claim it direct?
I have a bill for the service charge which I want to challenge. On what grounds can i challenge it other than they can get stuffed?
Can you claim an additional council tax rebate if the property is under serious renovation
I want to make sure the tenant is getting as much benefit as they can due to the inconvenience and that I can reduce my bills as much as possible

Help appreciated with where possible links to the legal position and any cases

Thanks

Edited by craigjm on Thursday 17th November 16:49

[elanfan]

Think there are potentially two different potential claims here:

The property damage claim and rehousing the tenant are probably the subject of a claim on the property insurance. I'd have thought insurers would look to minimise the claim by putting the tenant in a new or temporary flat. Not sure whether any additional costs are claimable under the terms of the policy.

If the management company can be proven liable at law they could be open to a claim from you for your losses and I guess the tenants/others suffering loss could make their own claims against them too. Have you got a paper or email trail telling them of the problems which they have taken no action on. If so you might have a chance.

I'm amazed that a tenanted property could suffer such major damage without any attempt to mitigate the loss - a bit more info would be interesting.

[craigjm]

elanfan said:

I'm amazed that a tenanted property could suffer such major damage without any attempt to mitigate the loss - a bit more info would be interesting.

There was an issue with the roof a couple of years ago causing a small leak into the bathroom through the light pull when it rained heavily. The management company dealt with the leak and patched the roof. This situation has happened because of the roof not being repaired properly and the water was building up in the ceiling until it broke through. The huge damage was caused by the fact they were on holiday and that the flat internally is 100% stud walls inside so the huge amount of water that bought down the bathroom ceiling permeatedr the flooring through to the subfloor and spread to the other rooms under the partition walls. It was noticed first by the owner below getting water in their ceiling and as that is through a concrete ceiling you can imagine how much water there was. So by the time they got back two weeks of soaking in damage means the sub floors are done for.

As they caused this by a cheap crap repair first time round I want to make sure The tenant and I can claim for as much as possible to teach them a lesson

[KevinCamaroSS]

Compensation culture at its best

How many roof and attic space inspections have you/your tenant done since the original repair? I doubt that much water built up in only two weeks.

[Rangeroverover]

You may want to check, I'm pretty sure.....I think..........maybe........ that in the event of a fire a tenant just has the AST cancelled, contents cover are down to the tenant, they get their deposit back and move on, you might be on the hook for the notice period. I'm not sure you have to house the tenant at your/insurance cost.

With a flood is it the same thing

Could a legal person let us know if that is the case

PS: How do you start a flood?

[craigjm]

KevinCamaroSS said:

Compensation culture at its best

How many roof and attic space inspections have you/your tenant done since the original repair? I doubt that much water built up in only two weeks.

None because you can't get up there because it's not a house. All of the access to the roofspace is locked off so that is just not an option. I am sure it has built up over the space of the whole year but there is just no way of checking

Do you own any flats that are over 4 floors high? How many of the roofs can you just walk out on when they are over 100ft in the air?

Edited by craigjm on Friday 18th November 10:35

[jesta1865]

do you have legal support through your insurance? they may help.

also if you are claiming all the work through the insurance company, surely they will be looking at going after the management company and getting money from them to mitigate their loss wouldn't they?

[craigjm]

jesta1865 said:

do you have legal support through your insurance? they may help.

also if you are claiming all the work through the insurance company, surely they will be looking at going after the management company and getting money from them to mitigate their loss wouldn't they?

The work is being covered under the buildings insurance for the block which is paid for by the management company from the service charge. I am just thinking it is unfair for the tenant to be placed in a hotel and therefore have to eat out every night and so their laundry at hotel prices etc. Surely they should automatically be reimbursed for the cost. The insurance company is not very forthcoming and I would have expected them to say something like a limit of £10 each for meals per day and say £10 a week each for laundry etc which they could then claim on an rolling basis like expenses so they are not out of pocket.

I would just like to know if I can tell them to go swing for six months service charge seeing as the place is uninhabitable.

I have since discovered that the council tax is reduced to 50% for the period so I need to sort that

[KevinCamaroSS]

craigjm said:

None because you can't get up there because it's not a house. All of the access to the roofspace is locked off so that is just not an option. I am sure it has built up over the space of the whole year but there is just no way of checking

Do you own any flats that are over 4 floors high? How many of the roofs can you just walk out on when they are over 100ft in the air?

Edited by craigjm on Friday 18th November 10:35

My BTL is third floor of 3, has attic/roof space access. Surely somebody can access the roof space, even if it the management company?

craigjm said:

I have since discovered that the council tax is reduced to 50% for the period so I need to sort that

Why is that your responsibility? The tenant should be paying the council tax, not you?

[anothernameitist]

KevinCamaroSS said:

Compensation culture at its best

Just a land lord looking after their tennant.

[craigjm]

Kevin.... yes the management company can access but have neglected their obligations to do so obviously which is why I am quite annoyed about the situation.

The property is let on an all inclusive bills basis because the tenants are elderly. I wouldn't want people in my family going through this crap at such an age so I am trying to help them as much as possible

[KevinCamaroSS]

craigjm said:

Kevin.... yes the management company can access but have neglected their obligations to do so obviously which is why I am quite annoyed about the situation.

The property is let on an all inclusive bills basis because the tenants are elderly. I wouldn't want people in my family going through this crap at such an age so I am trying to help them as much as possible

Apologies to you, well done.

[Wings]

craigjm said:

The work is being covered under the buildings insurance for the block which is paid for by the management company from the service charge. I am just thinking it is unfair for the tenant to be placed in a hotel and therefore have to eat out every night and so their laundry at hotel prices etc. Surely they should automatically be reimbursed for the cost. The insurance company is not very forthcoming and I would have expected them to say something like a limit of £10 each for meals per day and say £10 a week each for laundry etc which they could then claim on an rolling basis like expenses so they are not out of pocket.

I would just like to know if I can tell them to go swing for six months service charge seeing as the place is uninhabitable.

I have since discovered that the council tax is reduced to 50% for the period so I need to sort that

A landlord only needs to rehouse the tenant if the tenant continues paying the rent. As for the Service Charge you should, have to continue to paying the same.

You should make referral to your Building Insurance Policy, your Lease and your Tenancy Agreement, the former you have the right to request a copy of under the Landlord & Tenants Act 1985, and the latter may indicate a landlord's obligations on rehousing the tenant. Under an Act of God, there is no legal requirement for either a landlord or insurers to rehouse the tenant.

If I found myself in a similar situation, I would attempt to reach an agreement with the tenant, to bring an early surrender of the tenancy, since 3 months for remedial works may well go on and on to five, six months etc. etc.

The Leasehold Advisory Service offer a free legal telephone advice service, also their web site might offer further advice, info etc.

https://www.lease-advice.org/

[roofer]

craigjm said:

How many of the roofs can you just walk out on when they are over 100ft in the air?

Edited by craigjm on Friday 18th November 10:35

Probably most in London, especially if there is a lift in the block. You say the water came in through the light switch, which would indicate it's a concrete slab with conduit. ( This is if it's a flat roof) The leak could have been coming from anywhere on the roof, and they have probably sent some numpty up there to do a £5 repair.

All this being the case, I would call that negligent on the Managing Agents part. Have they now carried out a proper repair, or have you gone through all this agg for it to happen again 6 months later ?

Have to take my hat off to you for the concern for your tenants. Well done.

[craigjm]

The tenants aren't going to want to leave. They have been in the property for ten years or so and both in their 70s and I think he is on his last legs. It's real crap they could do without.

Yes roofer you are correct it is exactly that type of roof and exactly that type of repair that was originally done. It has been repaired again prior to this complete strip out and they have now issued a section 20 to get it replaced completely

I have contacted the advisory service thanks. For my own benefit I just want to be able to tell them shove it for their six months service charge but I want to do it on watertight grounds. Excuse the pun

[roofer]

Roof must be out for tender then, unless they have already given you costs ?

[KevinCamaroSS]

Craig, have a chat with the council, you may be able to get 100% discount on the council tax as it is uninhabitable. Different councils do different things, but it is worth a try.

[craigjm]

roofer said:

Roof must be out for tender then, unless they have already given you costs ?

The roof has been repaired but they were told in no uncertain terms that it needs replacing so they have issued a section 20 notice which means they will get three quotes to replace the whole roof then each leaseholder would have to pay their share

[roofer]

craigjm said:

The roof has been repaired but they were told in no uncertain terms that it needs replacing so they have issued a section 20 notice which means they will get three quotes to replace the whole roof then each leaseholder would have to pay their share

Correct. But they have to provide you with a figure before proceeding. With a full break down of actual works.

[craigjm]

Oh yeah definitely