Likely outcome of an accident i witnessed
Discussion
Hi all,
Normally a lurker, but tonight on my drive home i saw something worth asking on here as i am not 100% certain on what is the outcome will be. Its a bit wordy, but lack of details usually derails these topics so i will try to include everything.
I was on the inside line of a Dual carriageway (A127) about to leave the the road via the slip road (40 ft from the slip road, heading eastbound, leaving at the fair-glen interchange to get to the A1245 for those who like details). the traffic in my lane was stationary due to congestion on the slip road, it always is at this time of night, and the outside lane was flowing smoothly but slowly (20mph at a guess). There was a gap in front of me of about 1.5 car lengths, as the traffic had started to move again, before i moved a car from the outside lane made a late move for the gap. The driver did not notice the moped filtering on her inside and made contact with him, forcing him into my lane, where he bounced off the kerb and crashed into the vehicle in front of me, which was an 40ft arctic who i assume didn't notice a moped hitting him, he was in the blind spot. The biker was going slightly faster than the car, but slow enough that he could get up with no damage and drag his bike off the road and appear unharmed.
At this point i have put my hazards on, i was stationary for the whole thing, im watching the rider to see if i need to get out and help him, when the car that him, just drives off down the road, after stopping for a brief pause (1 or 2 seconds). I couldnt believe it. by luck i have a dashcam i fitted 2 weeks ago so i straight away pull off the road once i see the biker has got himself and bike, both unharmed thankfully. i explain i have it on camera and give him the memory card and my mobile number. i apologized for getting the cars reg as i assumed she would stop, he explained she looked him in the eye when he got up, raised her hand apologetically and drove off, he hasnt her plates either. I hope the dash cam picked them up, and once he has the video he said he would post the memory card back to me and i will put it up here, i apologize i didnt think to send the footage to him online as the video would save alot of supposing and guessing.
My question is whats the outcome here, i don't know anything about the do's and dont's of filtering, i assume what he was doing was legal but perhaps not the most sensible thing to be doing in the dark at rush hour. i am pretty sure what she did was illegal though with regards to not stopping at the accident. i couldn't believe it. Careless driving at the very least.
So first of, what should my young friend do/contact first, second off whats the likely end game. over to you.
Normally a lurker, but tonight on my drive home i saw something worth asking on here as i am not 100% certain on what is the outcome will be. Its a bit wordy, but lack of details usually derails these topics so i will try to include everything.
I was on the inside line of a Dual carriageway (A127) about to leave the the road via the slip road (40 ft from the slip road, heading eastbound, leaving at the fair-glen interchange to get to the A1245 for those who like details). the traffic in my lane was stationary due to congestion on the slip road, it always is at this time of night, and the outside lane was flowing smoothly but slowly (20mph at a guess). There was a gap in front of me of about 1.5 car lengths, as the traffic had started to move again, before i moved a car from the outside lane made a late move for the gap. The driver did not notice the moped filtering on her inside and made contact with him, forcing him into my lane, where he bounced off the kerb and crashed into the vehicle in front of me, which was an 40ft arctic who i assume didn't notice a moped hitting him, he was in the blind spot. The biker was going slightly faster than the car, but slow enough that he could get up with no damage and drag his bike off the road and appear unharmed.
At this point i have put my hazards on, i was stationary for the whole thing, im watching the rider to see if i need to get out and help him, when the car that him, just drives off down the road, after stopping for a brief pause (1 or 2 seconds). I couldnt believe it. by luck i have a dashcam i fitted 2 weeks ago so i straight away pull off the road once i see the biker has got himself and bike, both unharmed thankfully. i explain i have it on camera and give him the memory card and my mobile number. i apologized for getting the cars reg as i assumed she would stop, he explained she looked him in the eye when he got up, raised her hand apologetically and drove off, he hasnt her plates either. I hope the dash cam picked them up, and once he has the video he said he would post the memory card back to me and i will put it up here, i apologize i didnt think to send the footage to him online as the video would save alot of supposing and guessing.
My question is whats the outcome here, i don't know anything about the do's and dont's of filtering, i assume what he was doing was legal but perhaps not the most sensible thing to be doing in the dark at rush hour. i am pretty sure what she did was illegal though with regards to not stopping at the accident. i couldn't believe it. Careless driving at the very least.
So first of, what should my young friend do/contact first, second off whats the likely end game. over to you.
ekc said:
So first of, what should my young friend do/contact first, second off whats the likely end game. over to you.
1. Tell them to contact the police (101 or local station). Contact their own insurer. If they can get the registration then tell them to pass that on to their own insurer and police. They could also get the other person's insurance details via askmid for a one off fee (about £4). Email/hand a copy of the video to the police and insurer.2. Likely to be a non-fault claim to the biker/moped driver. Fault claim for the person who drove away at the scene of the incident with points and a fine I'd say.
I assume it was one of those sudden change of lane scenarios with the optional indicator?
We await the video.
Road Traffic Act 1988 says:
"170 Duty of driver to stop, report accident and give information or documents
(1)This section applies in a case where, owing to the presence of a motor vehicle on a road, an accident occurs by which—
(a)personal injury is caused to a person other than the driver of that motor vehicle, or
(b)damage is caused—
(i)to a vehicle other than that motor vehicle or a trailer drawn by that motor vehicle, or
(ii)to an animal other than an animal in or on that motor vehicle or a trailer drawn by that motor vehicle, or
(iii)to any other property constructed on, fixed to, growing in or otherwise forming part of the land on which the road in question is situated or land adjacent to such land.
(2)The driver of the motor vehicle must stop and, if required to do so by any person having reasonable grounds for so requiring, give his name and address and also the name and address of the owner and the identification marks of the vehicle."
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/sectio...
You state no damage & no injury & if that is the case likely nothing.
"170 Duty of driver to stop, report accident and give information or documents
(1)This section applies in a case where, owing to the presence of a motor vehicle on a road, an accident occurs by which—
(a)personal injury is caused to a person other than the driver of that motor vehicle, or
(b)damage is caused—
(i)to a vehicle other than that motor vehicle or a trailer drawn by that motor vehicle, or
(ii)to an animal other than an animal in or on that motor vehicle or a trailer drawn by that motor vehicle, or
(iii)to any other property constructed on, fixed to, growing in or otherwise forming part of the land on which the road in question is situated or land adjacent to such land.
(2)The driver of the motor vehicle must stop and, if required to do so by any person having reasonable grounds for so requiring, give his name and address and also the name and address of the owner and the identification marks of the vehicle."
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/sectio...
You state no damage & no injury & if that is the case likely nothing.
Edited by paintman on Monday 21st November 18:07
No serious damage or injury anyway, the side of the moped is pretty scuffed up from sliding on the tarmac before it hit the lorry, and i imagine after a crash of any description where head has hit the road his helmet will be for the bin, though new helmets might be better, last time i had a moped that was still the rule of thumb.The bike damage is probably just cosmetic, do they need looked at by someone who knows what they are doing after a crash? i doubt hes after any claim for injury or any of that carry-on but you'd at least expect her to stop and ask if hes okay. Though thanks for the by the book point of view, never new there had to be damage, bound to be some form of driving without due care an attention though.
ekc said:
No serious damage or injury anyway, the side of the moped is pretty scuffed up from sliding on the tarmac before it hit the lorry, and i imagine after a crash of any description where head has hit the road his helmet will be for the bin, though new helmets might be better, last time i had a moped that was still the rule of thumb.The bike damage is probably just cosmetic, do they need looked at by someone who knows what they are doing after a crash? i doubt hes after any claim for injury or any of that carry-on but you'd at least expect her to stop and ask if hes okay. Though thanks for the by the book point of view, never new there had to be damage, bound to be some form of driving without due care an attention though.
Damage to the moped in which case it's an accident as defined & she has failed to stop & probably hasn't reported it so fail report as well. Filtering through traffic or undertaking moving traffic especially at night is always risky, car drivers don't see bikes - I speak from experience as a motorcyclist.
If the helmet has hit the road then it's for the bin, not worth the risk.
Keep us posted on what transpires.
Edited by paintman on Monday 21st November 20:00
Update,
Had the boys parents round, they live nearby, they couldn't get a video from the card, but it fired up straight away on my PC so i have a clear video of the incident with number plate!
Currently uploading to the internet, something i found amazing was how many of the big and small details i remembered wrong, it looks different on video to how i described it in the above post, i wrote that description no more than 20 minutes after the event happened, and was trying to be honest/impartial. the lens does funny things to perceived distances etc but in my head she came in the lane a lot sharper than she did in the video.
I only got the dash cam as it reduced my insurance policy, i was pretty skeptical of them, but i reckon its £20 well spent now, video will be up once its done uploading
Had the boys parents round, they live nearby, they couldn't get a video from the card, but it fired up straight away on my PC so i have a clear video of the incident with number plate!
Currently uploading to the internet, something i found amazing was how many of the big and small details i remembered wrong, it looks different on video to how i described it in the above post, i wrote that description no more than 20 minutes after the event happened, and was trying to be honest/impartial. the lens does funny things to perceived distances etc but in my head she came in the lane a lot sharper than she did in the video.
I only got the dash cam as it reduced my insurance policy, i was pretty skeptical of them, but i reckon its £20 well spent now, video will be up once its done uploading
Know the junction and the road well, it's on my patch (Highways dept). Forgive the cynical view but the general standard of driving down there is bad at the best of times. Horrible, overcrowded road. Both drivers went for a closing gap far too late for the junction, again, par for the course at Fairglen. Citroën driver should have stopped, although I see that as 6 of one, half a dozen of the other. Moped boy was chipping along. Citroën didn't actually make contact (from a quick view of the video on a phone), so again understandable that the driver thought it was just the moped rider running out of skill.
Well done for stopping and making sure he was OK, decent thing to do.
Well done for stopping and making sure he was OK, decent thing to do.
OpulentBob said:
Know the junction and the road well, it's on my patch (Highways dept). Forgive the cynical view but the general standard of driving down there is bad at the best of times. Horrible, overcrowded road. Both drivers went for a closing gap far too late for the junction, again, par for the course at Fairglen. Citroën driver should have stopped, although I see that as 6 of one, half a dozen of the other. Moped boy was chipping along. Citroën didn't actually make contact (from a quick view of the video on a phone), so again understandable that the driver thought it was just the moped rider running out of skill.
Well done for stopping and making sure he was OK, decent thing to do.
VauxhallWell done for stopping and making sure he was OK, decent thing to do.
An interesting video. Esp if played stop/start to slow it down.
As the front nearside of her car starts to pass you the indicator repeater on the front wing is operating.
Her car passes you & the rear left indicator is on.
Her car completely passes you.
At this point the moped appears travelling faster than the car & tries to undertake her.
The car moves gradually into the left lane as he is doing so.
He continues trying to get past on the inside & finishes up going down the nearside of another car - which was ahead of you - before losing control of the moped at the rear of the lorry.
There was no contact between the moped and her car.
There was no contact between the moped and the second car.
I suspect if the lorry had been further out from the kerb he might have got away with it.
The road surface appears wet which wouldn't have helped his braking.
We don't know what happened prior to the video but based on what is on the clip I'd have been looking to speak to the moped rider in respect of careless/inconsiderate driving as the one at fault.
ETA. Entirely normal that your recollection differs somewhat from what actually happened.
As the front nearside of her car starts to pass you the indicator repeater on the front wing is operating.
Her car passes you & the rear left indicator is on.
Her car completely passes you.
At this point the moped appears travelling faster than the car & tries to undertake her.
The car moves gradually into the left lane as he is doing so.
He continues trying to get past on the inside & finishes up going down the nearside of another car - which was ahead of you - before losing control of the moped at the rear of the lorry.
There was no contact between the moped and her car.
There was no contact between the moped and the second car.
I suspect if the lorry had been further out from the kerb he might have got away with it.
The road surface appears wet which wouldn't have helped his braking.
We don't know what happened prior to the video but based on what is on the clip I'd have been looking to speak to the moped rider in respect of careless/inconsiderate driving as the one at fault.
ETA. Entirely normal that your recollection differs somewhat from what actually happened.
Edited by paintman on Monday 21st November 21:36
paintman said:
An interesting video.
Indeed. If a picture paints a thousand words, then a dashcam video...Biker was travelling too fast for the conditions I'd say.
If no contact was made between the biker and any other cars (including when it fell down/slid along), then I'd just put it down as a lesson learnt.
Cheeky from both parties. Given the clear indication from the car I would say that the moped rider got what he deserved there. If you are foolish enough to risk your squishiness and life going up against 1.5 tonne of metal that is indicating to cross your path whilst you're on 2 wheels on a wet and greasy road then that's Darwinism right there. That could've ended so much worse and hopefully he will have learnt a harsh lesson from it and think twice before doing it again. There was no contact made so talk of insurance companies and police is irrelevant.
Needs to change his mindset and riding style fast.Forums | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff