PCN / parking 'invoice' private car park.

[qube_TA]

Hi,
another one of these questions; so it was my 15th anniversary last week, went to York for dinner. I'd wanted to dine in Leeds but the restaurant the wife wanted to go to was booked but they had another one there was that available. I parked the car in an NCP that was just down the road. You could pay via a phone app so did that. All good.

I returned about 11PM to find the car park was all locked up and no-one was there :O

This was annoying as there was nothing obvious to say it would do this and it wasn't that late, whilst a small private car park can do this, it didn't occur to me an NCP would, usually they have an automatic barrier so you can get out.

There were no trains so I had to pay £50 for a taxi back to Leeds, and then arrange for a lift Sunday morning to collect the car.

Stuck to my window was an invoice (made to look like a fine) for £100 for leaving the car overnight.

Obviously I'm a tad miffed with this, there was nothing to inform me at the time I parked up that I wouldn't be able to retrieve my car or I'd be charged so much, there's no way I would have used the facility had I been informed.

Searching the internet /PH for advice gives conflicting information about where I stand legally as I've no intention of paying this given I'm already significantly out of pocket having to take two cars to York and back and pay for the taxi. Plus if I'd known I wasn't driving home I'd have had a drink! There's plenty of threads for these for parking on public land but I couldn't see one like this.

Some say just ignore it, it's not legally enforceable, others say they'll sue and it'll cost more. Tempted to just file an appeal but need a good template or similar to ensure it's correctly worded.

Any advice would be really great.

Thanks

[PurpleMoonlight]

I would say that the first thing to establish is if there were adequate signs notifying you of the closing time.

[Mandat]

qube_TA said:

Hi,
another one of these questions; so it was my 15th anniversary last week, went to York for dinner. I'd wanted to dine in Leeds but the restaurant the wife wanted to go to was booked but they had another one there was that available. I parked the car in an NCP that was just down the road. You could pay via a phone app so did that. All good.

I returned about 11PM to find the car park was all locked up and no-one was there :O

This was annoying as there was nothing obvious to say it would do this and it wasn't that late, whilst a small private car park can do this, it didn't occur to me an NCP would, usually they have an automatic barrier so you can get out.

There were no trains so I had to pay £50 for a taxi back to Leeds, and then arrange for a lift Sunday morning to collect the car.

Stuck to my window was an invoice (made to look like a fine) for £100 for leaving the car overnight.

Obviously I'm a tad miffed with this, there was nothing to inform me at the time I parked up that I wouldn't be able to retrieve my car or I'd be charged so much, there's no way I would have used the facility had I been informed.

Searching the internet /PH for advice gives conflicting information about where I stand legally as I've no intention of paying this given I'm already significantly out of pocket having to take two cars to York and back and pay for the taxi. Plus if I'd known I wasn't driving home I'd have had a drink! There's plenty of threads for these for parking on public land but I couldn't see one like this.

Some say just ignore it, it's not legally enforceable, others say they'll sue and it'll cost more. Tempted to just file an appeal but need a good template or similar to ensure it's correctly worded.

Any advice would be really great.

Thanks

The first thing that I would do is to confirm that there are no signs in the car park stating the opening / closing hours. If there are no signs, then you have ground for challenging the overnight parking costs , and potentially making your own claim for your taxi costs.

On the other hand, if there is clear signage and you simply didn't read it, then I think that your case for challenging the costs are significantly diminished.

[Red Devil]

qube_TA said:

I returned about 11PM to find the car park was all locked up and no-one was there :O

Unfortunately about doesn't cut it because out of 4 NCP car parks in York you chose the only one which closes at that exact hour.

I agree with the previous posters. You need to be 100% certain that the opening/closing times are not displayed anywhere.
There is at least one T&C notice here. There may well be others.
The devil will be in the detail. The camera resolution is insufficient to read the all the information.
So you will need to revisit the site and take photos of all the signage or find someone who can do it for you.

Another potentially relevant point is that, according to the NCP website, that car park is staffed.
Was there anyone present on site when you arrived and with whom you could have checked?

qube_TA said:

There were no trains so I had to pay £50 for a taxi back to Leeds, and then arrange for a lift Sunday morning to collect the car.

Might be worth exploring the possibility of a counterclaim for your losses.
If that flies, one tactic might be to invite NCP to call it quits to avoid further time and cost for either side.

qube_TA said:

Stuck to my window was an invoice (made to look like a fine) for £100 for leaving the car overnight.

NCP is a BPA member so it should offer a reduction for payment within 14 days per paragraph 19.7 of the BPA CoP.

qube_TA said:

Obviously I'm a tad miffed with this, there was nothing to inform me at the time I parked up that I wouldn't be able to retrieve my car or I'd be charged so much, there's no way I would have used the facility had I been informed.

See above.

qube_TA said:

Searching the internet /PH for advice gives conflicting information about where I stand legally as I've no intention of paying this given I'm already significantly out of pocket having to take two cars to York and back and pay for the taxi. Plus if I'd known I wasn't driving home I'd have had a drink! There's plenty of threads for these for parking on public land but I couldn't see one like this.

You can't have looked far. There is one about a PPC almost every other week on PH! Not sure where you have looked on the internet.

qube_TA said:

Some say just ignore it, it's not legally enforceable, others say they'll sue and it'll cost more. Tempted to just file an appeal but need a good template or similar to ensure it's correctly worded.

You need pepipoo and/or MSE for practical help. Re the latter, read the Newbies thread first before signing up. A total refusal to engage with a PPC can be a risky strategy.
Bear in mind also at that location NCP is running a quite different operation from the likes of PE. It is unlikely to be acting as agent for a third party (e.g. a retail park)

[qube_TA]

There is a piece of A4 stuck to the window of the security office that said it was locked at 11, I saw this when I collected my car, but it's not displayed anywhere else, I had no reason to go to the security booth to pay for my parking, there are no other signs or notices.

[Mandat]

qube_TA said:

There is a piece of A4 stuck to the window of the security office that said it was locked at 11, I saw this when I collected my car, but it's not displayed anywhere else, I had no reason to go to the security booth to pay for my parking, there are no other signs or notices.

Then use that as the basis of your counterclaim against NCP.

[The Surveyor]

qube_TA said:

There is a piece of A4 stuck to the window of the security office that said it was locked at 11, I saw this when I collected my car, but it's not displayed anywhere else, I had no reason to go to the security booth to pay for my parking, there are no other signs or notices.

Which car park was it, the NCP's listed in York on their website are all either 24 hr, or close at midnight. If they usually close at midnight and on just that one occasion closed early, you'll have a much stronger argument.

[Riley Blue]

York Piccadilly? Are you sure the opening times aren't on a sign at the entrance?

[qube_TA]

Riley Blue said:

York Piccadilly? Are you sure the opening times aren't on a sign at the entrance?

There isn't a sign, I looked afterwards, just the print out on the security booth.

Maybe they're on the pay and display machine but I paid via my phone, there's nothing on the walls.

[robdcfc]

It states her it closes at 11pm but it also offers a price to park for 24 hours.

I would argue the toss based on this alone that you can park overnight?

[qube_TA]

they issued the fee as soon as they opened at 7AM

I didn't check their website, but why would you, it was an NCP so I didn't think it would close like this, none of the 'branded' car parks in Leeds do this? If it was just an independent then I'd have been cautious and just parked elsewhere. I don't mind putting my hand up to being thick but a sole bit of A4 sellotaped to a booth isn't sufficient notice, seems like they were trying to deliberately catch people out. Plus I went back at 11 and they were already gone, suspect the guard knocked off a smidge early.

[Red Devil]

The Surveyor said:

Which car park was it, the NCP's listed in York on their website are all either 24 hr, or close at midnight.

Wrong. I checked the NCP website before I posted earlier. The Piccadilly site is the only one of the 4 in the city which closes at 11pm.

qube_TA said:

Riley Blue said:

York Piccadilly? Are you sure the opening times aren't on a sign at the entrance?

There isn't a sign, I looked afterwards, just the print out on the security booth.

Maybe they're on the pay a.d display machine but I paid via my phone, there's nothing on the walls.

Really? Then what is that big yellow square thing on the wall in the link I posted?
Are you saying it has disappeared since June of this year when the Google car drove along that road?
NCP will have difficulty in claiming a breach if the T&C signage is absent.

The fact that you say there is no sign suggests you failed to spot it.
It may or may not show the opening times (it's impossible to tell from Street View).
Unless you go back and check you cannot know for sure.
If it does, it rather diminishes your chances of a successful appeal.
If not, you might be in with a shout.

If you really want to appeal you should go to the sites I mentioned.
Do this first. Too many people go off half cock and end up sinking their own ship.

[silverfoxcc]

As i have just told tigger
Get onto pepipoo.comm, and post in the Private parking thread BUT in this case DO NOT contact the PPC at all and never ever disclose who was the driver

And tell the truth and dont fudge anything.
after all its near Xmas and that money requested is better off in your pocket.

[S11Steve]

Curiously, this has just happened in Sheffield - http://www.thestar.co.uk/news/ncp-apologises-profu...

I wonder if the same occurred in York?

[anonymous-user]

silverfoxcc said:

As i have just told tigger
Get onto pepipoo.comm, and post in the Private parking thread BUT in this case DO NOT contact the PPC at all and never ever disclose who was the driver

And tell the truth and dont fudge anything.
after all its near Xmas and that money requested is better off in your pocket.

This,

go to pepipoo and register and state the facts, NEVER reveal the driver and DON'T ignore it, im currently being taken to court over 15 private tickets, not that im going to loose but its not worth the stress, trust me.