Discussion
Hi All
Mods if this needs to be moved to a more appropriate forum then please do so.
Long story short, I own a 4 bed house and decided to get in lodgers to help cover costs etc. I checked on the Direct.gov website prior to this and was reasonably happy I was not an HMO so took in lodgers on that basis.
The house is my main residence.
It is on a consent to lease mortgage as previously I have rented out the whole property (not sure if relevant).
Rental included all bills.
I paid council tax on the basis of a full house occupancy (not the single occupier 25% reduction that's possible)
The residence is only 2 stories high.
4 bedrooms so max of 3 lodgers at any one time (no shared rooms), often less than this due to lodgers leaving etc.
No families or family members
Bathroom, kitchen, lounge etc all shared.
Lodgers agreements were signed prior to commencement of lodging.
I've now decided to sell up and have this week removed the last 2 lodgers, one of whom was a particularly poor lodger, and did not pay any rent accept for the first week and key deposit (I don't want to enter into a discussion regarding this point but it might be req) .
Now this guy has left, he has reported me to the council as being an HMO, and am due to have the environmental team investigate (this is rich given he was on DSS and never paid me a penny of any benefits he received to cover rent but hay ho).
Delving deeper its perhaps not as clear cut as I first thought, and so checking further I'm still happy I was not an HMO. But of course this is now being investigated and could be down to personal opinion, So my two questions are as follows.
1- I would be interested in peoples opinions as to if I was inadvertently operating as an HMO (I didn't deliberately try avoid by the way)?
2- If I was found to be in breech of the regs what is the likely outcome?
If anybody would like to comment on what I can do to report the scrote these suggestions are also welcome, but please bear in mind I have no idea where he has moved, so taking him to court to get outstanding rent is not possible.
Thanks all.
Mods if this needs to be moved to a more appropriate forum then please do so.
Long story short, I own a 4 bed house and decided to get in lodgers to help cover costs etc. I checked on the Direct.gov website prior to this and was reasonably happy I was not an HMO so took in lodgers on that basis.
The house is my main residence.
It is on a consent to lease mortgage as previously I have rented out the whole property (not sure if relevant).
Rental included all bills.
I paid council tax on the basis of a full house occupancy (not the single occupier 25% reduction that's possible)
The residence is only 2 stories high.
4 bedrooms so max of 3 lodgers at any one time (no shared rooms), often less than this due to lodgers leaving etc.
No families or family members
Bathroom, kitchen, lounge etc all shared.
Lodgers agreements were signed prior to commencement of lodging.
I've now decided to sell up and have this week removed the last 2 lodgers, one of whom was a particularly poor lodger, and did not pay any rent accept for the first week and key deposit (I don't want to enter into a discussion regarding this point but it might be req) .
Now this guy has left, he has reported me to the council as being an HMO, and am due to have the environmental team investigate (this is rich given he was on DSS and never paid me a penny of any benefits he received to cover rent but hay ho).
Delving deeper its perhaps not as clear cut as I first thought, and so checking further I'm still happy I was not an HMO. But of course this is now being investigated and could be down to personal opinion, So my two questions are as follows.
1- I would be interested in peoples opinions as to if I was inadvertently operating as an HMO (I didn't deliberately try avoid by the way)?
2- If I was found to be in breech of the regs what is the likely outcome?
If anybody would like to comment on what I can do to report the scrote these suggestions are also welcome, but please bear in mind I have no idea where he has moved, so taking him to court to get outstanding rent is not possible.
Thanks all.
Tom_C76 said:
AIUI it's not an HMO if you continued to live there. Only becomes an HMO if all the residents are paying rent individually to the landlord.
Thanks Tom, I have now moved out, property is waiting for its new tenants who will be living there under a conventional short hold tenancy agreement.My confusion has been caused by the fact the information on line does not make it clear about if the landlord is resident or not.
Sorry forgot to add, the lodgers were not and never have been students or asylum seekers as I believe this can have a bearing.
It sounds like an HMO when you read this https://www.gov.uk/private-renting/houses-in-multi...
Tom_C76 said:
AIUI it's not an HMO if you continued to live there. Only becomes an HMO if all the residents are paying rent individually to the landlord.
They also cease to be lodgers, and become tenants - with much stronger legal rights.Whether it's an HMO or not depends on how the local authority define HMOs, and also on what they require in the way of licencing - and that differs from LA to LA.
The following link is pretty clear:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/letting-rooms-in-your-home-a-guide-for-resident-landlords/letting-rooms-in-your-home-a-guide-for-resident-landlords
When you had 2 lodgers it was not an HMO.
When you had 3 lodgers it was an HMO.
When it was an HMO, it was not a licensable HMO, unless you are in an area with mandatory licensing.
The requirements for a non-licensable HMO in a low-risk category are pretty light, and the property is no longer an HMO. I wouldn't expect anyone to be particularly unhappy with you, especially if you covered fire safety, gas safety and electrical safety and didn't have 43 Lithuanian chaps living in a wooden shed filled with fireworks and petrol, running 4 electrical appliances each from a snakes' honeymoon of dodgy multi-plugs.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/letting-rooms-in-your-home-a-guide-for-resident-landlords/letting-rooms-in-your-home-a-guide-for-resident-landlords
When you had 2 lodgers it was not an HMO.
When you had 3 lodgers it was an HMO.
When it was an HMO, it was not a licensable HMO, unless you are in an area with mandatory licensing.
The requirements for a non-licensable HMO in a low-risk category are pretty light, and the property is no longer an HMO. I wouldn't expect anyone to be particularly unhappy with you, especially if you covered fire safety, gas safety and electrical safety and didn't have 43 Lithuanian chaps living in a wooden shed filled with fireworks and petrol, running 4 electrical appliances each from a snakes' honeymoon of dodgy multi-plugs.
Magic919 said:
It sounds like an HMO when you read this https://www.gov.uk/private-renting/houses-in-multi...
Which is why I'm now not 100% clear as that does not mention the situation of the landlord, but when I enter the details into http://www.rla.org.uk/landlord/guides/housing_act/ it does indicate that its not an HMO, which is why I believe its going to fall down to the opinion of the investigating officer, its a bit grey.Pinky and Perky said:
deltashad said:
Pinky and perky... are you swingers couple?
No, had more to do with where I worked at the time.Thanks for all your replies I appreciate it. Will check out the relevant housing act.
Cheers
Anyhow m40 f 32 if interested haha!!!
Enough useful advice on the HMO issue above. On a related topic, I'd suggest serving proceedings against the defaulting lodger. You'll get judgement for the unpaid and then get it back, albeit slowly, from his benefits. You'll also insure yourself against any loss for any vexatious proceedings he may bring against you. Illegal eviction, hate crimes the lot. You never know whet he may decide to pin on you for a chance of cash.
Also don't forget your tax relief on the HMRCs rent a room scheme. Good luck OP.
Also don't forget your tax relief on the HMRCs rent a room scheme. Good luck OP.
OP you said that you had got rid of the lodgers, so when whoever arrives to question you about the status of your house, you are the only occupant.
So there is nothing to discuss. You don't have to answer their questions about what happened and it is up to them to obtain the information.
Advise them that it is shortly to be a single let and they are unlikely to be interested any further.
Being classified as an HMO depends on the numbers of tenants and floors
So there is nothing to discuss. You don't have to answer their questions about what happened and it is up to them to obtain the information.
Advise them that it is shortly to be a single let and they are unlikely to be interested any further.
Being classified as an HMO depends on the numbers of tenants and floors
OP you need to take proper legal advice asap. All sorts of potential issues here including safety even if not HMO, more if HMO, licensing, prosecution, fines, council tax, clawback of rent, clawback of any overpaid housing benefit (even if you never saw it), tax etc. You might be okay but I wouldn't want to be so unsure and waiting on what the council may say.
pork911 said:
OP you need to take proper legal advice asap. All sorts of potential issues here including safety even if not HMO, more if HMO, licensing, prosecution, fines, council tax, clawback of rent, clawback of any overpaid housing benefit (even if you never saw it), tax etc. You might be okay but I wouldn't want to be so unsure and waiting on what the council may say.
Well from a safety standpoint I'm reasonably well covered, its a relatively new house, has fitted fire alarms (on the mains) fire doors to the garage where the boiler is, and I had gas safety certs, and gas boiler checks services and repairs, only thing I didn't have was fire extinguishers and fire doors to the bedrooms. The lodger that raised the complaint has been evicted, I believe he made the complaint on the basis that I served him 4 weeks notice, bit of sour grapes perhaps. I will check to see what legal cover I have on the house insurance to see if I can get a lawyer to support if need be, but the council bods don't seems to be very interested at all. I don't intend to chase up the non payment of rent for two reasons, first the individual was not a nice person and I don't want any further dealings with him at all, Second, he has nothing so how can I get something from nothing rather than waste the time I would rather get on my life and look forward to enjoying Christmas with my family.
I've informed the benefits team at the local council about the fact he failed to pay me any rent from his benefits, but again there does not seem to be any interest in following this up.
Thanks for all the help and I will try and update if and when anything else happens.
MJG280 said:
OP you said that you had got rid of the lodgers, so when whoever arrives to question you about the status of your house, you are the only occupant.
So there is nothing to discuss. You don't have to answer their questions about what happened and it is up to them to obtain the information.
Advise them that it is shortly to be a single let and they are unlikely to be interested any further.
Being classified as an HMO depends on the numbers of tenants and floors
It is not the number of paid tenants, but the number of occupants, and with a resident landlord and three (3) or more occupants, the property would fall under the HMO legislation.So there is nothing to discuss. You don't have to answer their questions about what happened and it is up to them to obtain the information.
Advise them that it is shortly to be a single let and they are unlikely to be interested any further.
Being classified as an HMO depends on the numbers of tenants and floors
With the OP’s present intentions, I strongly believe he will have no problems, past or present under the HMO legislation.
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