Letting agent question
Discussion
I'm an amateur landlord. In the loosest possible sense!
I was left some money when my mum passed away and decided to invest it in a new build 3 bed detached house to rent out. The important thing to note here is that is is an en-suite setup, so has 2 bathrooms with showers.
I consider myself to be a fair and reasonable landlord - when the fridge/freezer broke down under guarantee and I couldn't get an engineer for a couple of weeks (that's another story!) - I personally went out and bought a small temporary replacement and delivered it within 48 hours.
To cut a long story short - one of the electric showers in the house died in the middle of last week. I got an email when in Italy to tell me - passed it to the wife, who said she'd spoken to the agent (large, national, internet only...) who said they'd try the house vendor first, but if they couldn't attend, they'd get us a 'free quotation'.
Apparently, the timescale on the company who could do a quick visit and quote wasn't good enough for the tenant, so the agent employed another company, who have now slapped on a £216 call-out charge and a, frankly, laughable estimate of nearly £700 (on top of the initial call-out!) to replace a sub-£100 electric shower!
Obviously, I'm not authorising the replacement - I have now made the call to the house builder myself and booked a call under the 2 year warranty (which is what the agent should have done in the first place).
So, my question is this - we didn't authorise the chargeable call-out, the agent obviously didn't report this into the builder (they have all the house and appliance warranty documents for such eventualities) - so I'm now fighting the case to ensure they don't make an automatic deduction from my rent to cover this.
Does it sound like the agent has acted unfairly? - it seems they were 'bullied' by the tenant into booking an expensive service, as 'it's inconvenient - I have guests'... and secondly, given that it's only 1 shower of 2 that has failed, plus the hot water for the bath still works, is the tenant being unreasonable in their demands to have a nigh-on immediate fix - and what could be considered a reasonable timescale?
(In all honesty, I'm a little fed up of being a landlord, only 12 months in - maybe I have a tenant with unrealistic demands, but it seems they want anything that goes wrong fixing next day - plus asked me to pay for them to cover the tiny front flower bed in pea shingle as they 'didn't have time to keep pulling up weeds')
I was left some money when my mum passed away and decided to invest it in a new build 3 bed detached house to rent out. The important thing to note here is that is is an en-suite setup, so has 2 bathrooms with showers.
I consider myself to be a fair and reasonable landlord - when the fridge/freezer broke down under guarantee and I couldn't get an engineer for a couple of weeks (that's another story!) - I personally went out and bought a small temporary replacement and delivered it within 48 hours.
To cut a long story short - one of the electric showers in the house died in the middle of last week. I got an email when in Italy to tell me - passed it to the wife, who said she'd spoken to the agent (large, national, internet only...) who said they'd try the house vendor first, but if they couldn't attend, they'd get us a 'free quotation'.
Apparently, the timescale on the company who could do a quick visit and quote wasn't good enough for the tenant, so the agent employed another company, who have now slapped on a £216 call-out charge and a, frankly, laughable estimate of nearly £700 (on top of the initial call-out!) to replace a sub-£100 electric shower!
Obviously, I'm not authorising the replacement - I have now made the call to the house builder myself and booked a call under the 2 year warranty (which is what the agent should have done in the first place).
So, my question is this - we didn't authorise the chargeable call-out, the agent obviously didn't report this into the builder (they have all the house and appliance warranty documents for such eventualities) - so I'm now fighting the case to ensure they don't make an automatic deduction from my rent to cover this.
Does it sound like the agent has acted unfairly? - it seems they were 'bullied' by the tenant into booking an expensive service, as 'it's inconvenient - I have guests'... and secondly, given that it's only 1 shower of 2 that has failed, plus the hot water for the bath still works, is the tenant being unreasonable in their demands to have a nigh-on immediate fix - and what could be considered a reasonable timescale?
(In all honesty, I'm a little fed up of being a landlord, only 12 months in - maybe I have a tenant with unrealistic demands, but it seems they want anything that goes wrong fixing next day - plus asked me to pay for them to cover the tiny front flower bed in pea shingle as they 'didn't have time to keep pulling up weeds')
Sound like right knobs and no I don't think the agent acted reasonably that's a ridiculous call out charge that should never have agreed to.
I lived in a rented house years ago and our landlord owned next door as well. After our first year was almost up I called the letting agent, they asked if the house was all ok as next door were constantly phoning them about things including a loose cupboard door that they sent a handyman out to tighten a screw on. I couldn't be bothered with it all personally dealing with lazy needy t
ts
I lived in a rented house years ago and our landlord owned next door as well. After our first year was almost up I called the letting agent, they asked if the house was all ok as next door were constantly phoning them about things including a loose cupboard door that they sent a handyman out to tighten a screw on. I couldn't be bothered with it all personally dealing with lazy needy t
ts£216 call out? For what? Going to quote for replacing the shower? Or to attempt a repair? If it was to attempt a repair, then you're probably stuck with it, to be honest.
Your agent is pulling your penis if they're using trades that charge a call out to go and quote.
You need to check your paperwork/terms and conditions with the agent. Usually how repairs are dealt with will be outlined in that. Sometimes there is a threshold for expenses that need to be notified. They should have determined if a call out would be charged for someone to go and quote, as that is not reasonable, and if that is the case, I would dispute it with them and whatever redress scheme they are part of.
I wouldn't expect an agent to contact the company who built the house to get a warranty repair. Unless you specifically told them to do that and they've ignored that.
You should also provide them with a list of contractors to use on your property, to stop them using theirs that take the piss.
It's not unreasonable on your part if your preferred contractor can't get there straight away and they have to wait a few days. Tenants won't like it, but that's their problem.
Your agent is pulling your penis if they're using trades that charge a call out to go and quote.
You need to check your paperwork/terms and conditions with the agent. Usually how repairs are dealt with will be outlined in that. Sometimes there is a threshold for expenses that need to be notified. They should have determined if a call out would be charged for someone to go and quote, as that is not reasonable, and if that is the case, I would dispute it with them and whatever redress scheme they are part of.
I wouldn't expect an agent to contact the company who built the house to get a warranty repair. Unless you specifically told them to do that and they've ignored that.
You should also provide them with a list of contractors to use on your property, to stop them using theirs that take the piss.
It's not unreasonable on your part if your preferred contractor can't get there straight away and they have to wait a few days. Tenants won't like it, but that's their problem.
Fairly experienced landlord here. I think your problem is your agent. You state you are using a large national Internet only company, I always use a local company because they generally have good contacts with local tradesmen.
One company I use has a dedicated maintenance manager in the office, if it's a stupid little problem he will pop around himself and have a look, for example one of my tenants reported the upstairs lights not working, yes you guessed it a bulb had blown and tripped the circuit breaker. He went around flicked the breaker back on and told them to buy a new bulb.
So your national guys may well give you a low percentage deal on their fee's, but as we all know you get what you pay for.
One company I use has a dedicated maintenance manager in the office, if it's a stupid little problem he will pop around himself and have a look, for example one of my tenants reported the upstairs lights not working, yes you guessed it a bulb had blown and tripped the circuit breaker. He went around flicked the breaker back on and told them to buy a new bulb.
So your national guys may well give you a low percentage deal on their fee's, but as we all know you get what you pay for.
The bill is for diagnostics and to quote for a replacement! - and we didn't authorise it. My wife said yes to the company who would give a free quote.
However, the agent knows the property is still under the builder's guarantee and have all the documents to support it - they also have the 'service plan' agreements for the white goods, so they can make arrangements for repairs if needs be.
I've stuck with the national agent, as they found me a tenant very quickly, did all the paperwork and because the house is new, so was highly unlikely to need anything chargeable doing to it.
Lesson learned, though - I'll investigate local agents at the next renewal.
However, the agent knows the property is still under the builder's guarantee and have all the documents to support it - they also have the 'service plan' agreements for the white goods, so they can make arrangements for repairs if needs be.
I've stuck with the national agent, as they found me a tenant very quickly, did all the paperwork and because the house is new, so was highly unlikely to need anything chargeable doing to it.
Lesson learned, though - I'll investigate local agents at the next renewal.
Trabi601 said:
Apparently, the timescale on the company who could do a quick visit and quote wasn't good enough for the tenant, so the agent employed another company, who have now slapped on a £216 call-out charge and a, frankly, laughable estimate of nearly £700 (on top of the initial call-out!) to replace a sub-£100 electric shower!
Obviously, I'm not authorising the replacement - I have now made the call to the house builder myself and booked a call under the 2 year warranty (which is what the agent should have done in the first place).
So, my question is this - we didn't authorise the chargeable call-out, the agent obviously didn't report this into the builder (they have all the house and appliance warranty documents for such eventualities) - so I'm now fighting the case to ensure they don't make an automatic deduction from my rent to cover this.
Does it sound like the agent has acted unfairly? - it seems they were 'bullied' by the tenant into booking an expensive service, as 'it's inconvenient - I have guests'... and secondly, given that it's only 1 shower of 2 that has failed, plus the hot water for the bath still works, is the tenant being unreasonable in their demands to have a nigh-on immediate fix - and what could be considered a reasonable timescale?
As a rough rule of thumb, what would be acceptable for an owner-occupier? Would the tenant find it reasonable to call in somebody top-whack rather than go through the warranty for the sake of a few days, if they were footing the bill...?Obviously, I'm not authorising the replacement - I have now made the call to the house builder myself and booked a call under the 2 year warranty (which is what the agent should have done in the first place).
So, my question is this - we didn't authorise the chargeable call-out, the agent obviously didn't report this into the builder (they have all the house and appliance warranty documents for such eventualities) - so I'm now fighting the case to ensure they don't make an automatic deduction from my rent to cover this.
Does it sound like the agent has acted unfairly? - it seems they were 'bullied' by the tenant into booking an expensive service, as 'it's inconvenient - I have guests'... and secondly, given that it's only 1 shower of 2 that has failed, plus the hot water for the bath still works, is the tenant being unreasonable in their demands to have a nigh-on immediate fix - and what could be considered a reasonable timescale?
As far as the agent goes, what does your contract with them state?
Trabi601 said:
The bill is for diagnostics and to quote for a replacement! - and we didn't authorise it. My wife said yes to the company who would give a free quote.
However, the agent knows the property is still under the builder's guarantee and have all the documents to support it - they also have the 'service plan' agreements for the white goods, so they can make arrangements for repairs if needs be.
I've stuck with the national agent, as they found me a tenant very quickly, did all the paperwork and because the house is new, so was highly unlikely to need anything chargeable doing to it.
Lesson learned, though - I'll investigate local agents at the next renewal.
Your best bet is to argue it out with the agency if they specifically said a free quote.However, the agent knows the property is still under the builder's guarantee and have all the documents to support it - they also have the 'service plan' agreements for the white goods, so they can make arrangements for repairs if needs be.
I've stuck with the national agent, as they found me a tenant very quickly, did all the paperwork and because the house is new, so was highly unlikely to need anything chargeable doing to it.
Lesson learned, though - I'll investigate local agents at the next renewal.
Otherwise, it's just an invoice for an attempted repair and diagnostic of a broken shower. Which is a lot harder to get out of from a landlord's position.
I would email and say they are not authorised to deduct the amount from the rent, and ask for the complaints procedure etc.
I'm not really sure what they've done. If something is broken and you send a contractor out, they'll charge for the time to investigate and see if it's repairable. So they either sent someone out to attempt a repair, or they sent someone out to quote for a replacement.
If all you authorised was a quote to replace, then the agents should have stuck with that. The agent takes instructions from you, not the tenants.
You really need to check the contract, though.
TooMany2cvs said:
As a rough rule of thumb, what would be acceptable for an owner-occupier? Would the tenant find it reasonable to call in somebody top-whack rather than go through the warranty for the sake of a few days, if they were footing the bill...?
As far as the agent goes, what does your contract with them state?
For the first point - that's my thoughts. And if I wanted it doing ASAP, I'd be calling for a quote / using a quotation service website to get it done. Seems the going rate should be £150-ish cost of shower (£100-ish).As far as the agent goes, what does your contract with them state?
The latter point - for important, but non-urgent repairs, they have a £100 limit, above which they should call me for authorisation.
Which may explain why, when I called to speak to the agent who booked this, she was 'unavailable' and I was immediately directed to their formal complaints process.
oldnbold said:
Fairly experienced landlord here. I think your problem is your agent. You state you are using a large national Internet only company, I always use a local company because they generally have good contacts with local tradesmen.
One company I use has a dedicated maintenance manager in the office, if it's a stupid little problem he will pop around himself and have a look, for example one of my tenants reported the upstairs lights not working, yes you guessed it a bulb had blown and tripped the circuit breaker. He went around flicked the breaker back on and told them to buy a new bulb.
So your national guys may well give you a low percentage deal on their fee's, but as we all know you get what you pay for.
^^^^agree,One company I use has a dedicated maintenance manager in the office, if it's a stupid little problem he will pop around himself and have a look, for example one of my tenants reported the upstairs lights not working, yes you guessed it a bulb had blown and tripped the circuit breaker. He went around flicked the breaker back on and told them to buy a new bulb.
So your national guys may well give you a low percentage deal on their fee's, but as we all know you get what you pay for.
I have one particular rental property, where the 8.5 kw electric shower has a history of breakdowns, the same mainly due to low water pressure, dirty filter, pressure release valve fault etc. etc. Well known make of shower, and with the trade price being below £90, I always have a replacement shower in hand.
Repairs, replacement shower would normally take me 48-72 hours (in fact I replaced an oven this week within 3 hours), but in the OP’s situation, with the tenant having other hot washing facilities, 7-10 working days is not being unreasonable.
The agent here is at fault, since the call out charge is way over the top, and any experience agent should have first checked the call out charge, comparing the same against the estimated cost of either a repair or replacement of the shower.
.
The call out charge almost matches the cost a local plumber would charge to replace the shower
Wings said:
.
The call out charge almost matches the cost a local plumber would charge to replace the shower
Huntsman said:
Me too.
Ours is a 1960's ex local authority build.
What you need is to ditch the agent, find yourself a good local sparky and plumber/gas safe. Other little stuff do yourself.
That's the thing - I farmed it out because I don't actually have time to manage it, work on it etc. I barely have time to do stuff around my house a lot of the time (lots of work related travel, staying in hotels etc., - I've spent 3 nights away each week on average, for the past I don't know how many months).Ours is a 1960's ex local authority build.
What you need is to ditch the agent, find yourself a good local sparky and plumber/gas safe. Other little stuff do yourself.
It's not mortgaged, so I'm not working on tight margins - hence being willing to pay someone else to manage it all for me!
As a small family run letting agency been established over 40 years why why why did you use a online agency for a rental management? I can understand it for sales but for lettings? You are buying a service not a product with lettings.
How much is their headline commission ? and then how much are all their extra charges? The big firms who don't give a ste will undercut to get a foot hold but they are really crap at the work they do.
Did you not talk with a few agents to try and find one that would do a good job rather than perhaps the cheapest "headline rate"?
We let properties quickly but more importantly to the right tenants not the first tenants. We aim to build up a long term relationship with our landlords which benefits both of us long term not short term.
OP you mention they let it fast - its not hard to let a property - the work comes in getting the correct tenants and being careful about them and then making sure the property is looked after as you as a owner would do and yes that equates with saying to tenants they will have to wait a reasonable time for a repair if required. other times we can get things fixed very fast by local good contractors we have used for many years.
We act for the owner to protect your legal interests in the property and to do a good job. How the heck do you think an online agency gives a fek about your property and you as a landlord? they don't you are a number, that's it. They will palm off so many off shoots to get their dollar in one of which is adding to contractors bills, charging to hold the deposits, this and that fees, set up fees, etc Seriously did you not talk to a firm on the high street who has some skin in the business to make it work for both of you?
They are taking the piss, if its under warranty then you should not have a call out fee. Have they not tried to relove this without pointing you to their complaints ? Blimey we do everything possible to try and ensure we don't get any complaints and if we do we then resolve them as its good business sense.
Seriously what are all their charges? are they purple?
How much is their headline commission ? and then how much are all their extra charges? The big firms who don't give a s
te will undercut to get a foot hold but they are really crap at the work they do.Did you not talk with a few agents to try and find one that would do a good job rather than perhaps the cheapest "headline rate"?
We let properties quickly but more importantly to the right tenants not the first tenants. We aim to build up a long term relationship with our landlords which benefits both of us long term not short term.
OP you mention they let it fast - its not hard to let a property - the work comes in getting the correct tenants and being careful about them and then making sure the property is looked after as you as a owner would do and yes that equates with saying to tenants they will have to wait a reasonable time for a repair if required. other times we can get things fixed very fast by local good contractors we have used for many years.
We act for the owner to protect your legal interests in the property and to do a good job. How the heck do you think an online agency gives a fek about your property and you as a landlord? they don't you are a number, that's it. They will palm off so many off shoots to get their dollar in one of which is adding to contractors bills, charging to hold the deposits, this and that fees, set up fees, etc Seriously did you not talk to a firm on the high street who has some skin in the business to make it work for both of you?
They are taking the piss, if its under warranty then you should not have a call out fee. Have they not tried to relove this without pointing you to their complaints ? Blimey we do everything possible to try and ensure we don't get any complaints and if we do we then resolve them as its good business sense.
Seriously what are all their charges? are they purple?
I'm not going to name and shame. I just wanted a steer.
Yes, you could say I should have shopped around locally - but then it's difficult to know who to trust. At least with a national agent, you can find enough feedback to suggest they're a 'safe' pair of hands, if not the cheapest overall.
I've only been doing this just over 12 months, so I'll live and learn.
We've just renewed (in November) - so I'll have to live with it for another 11 months before getting a new agent.
(I'm actually generally happy with the tenant - the house is being looked after, all the references checked out, I reckon they earn a significant chunk more than I do, too... so the rent is always there, every month, on time. It's just that they're a little fussy and can be demanding at times. But not so much that I wanted the pain of not renewing, having a void and finding someone else!)
Yes, you could say I should have shopped around locally - but then it's difficult to know who to trust. At least with a national agent, you can find enough feedback to suggest they're a 'safe' pair of hands, if not the cheapest overall.
I've only been doing this just over 12 months, so I'll live and learn.
We've just renewed (in November) - so I'll have to live with it for another 11 months before getting a new agent.
(I'm actually generally happy with the tenant - the house is being looked after, all the references checked out, I reckon they earn a significant chunk more than I do, too... so the rent is always there, every month, on time. It's just that they're a little fussy and can be demanding at times. But not so much that I wanted the pain of not renewing, having a void and finding someone else!)
superlightr said:
As a small family run letting agency been established over 40 years why why why did you use a online agency for a rental management? I can understand it for sales but for lettings? You are buying a service not a product with lettings.
How much is their headline commission ? and then how much are all their extra charges? The big firms who don't give a ste will undercut to get a foot hold but they are really crap at the work they do.
Did you not talk with a few agents to try and find one that would do a good job rather than perhaps the cheapest "headline rate"?
We let properties quickly but more importantly to the right tenants not the first tenants. We aim to build up a long term relationship with our landlords which benefits both of us long term not short term.
OP you mention they let it fast - its not hard to let a property - the work comes in getting the correct tenants and being careful about them and then making sure the property is looked after as you as a owner would do and yes that equates with saying to tenants they will have to wait a reasonable time for a repair if required. other times we can get things fixed very fast by local good contractors we have used for many years.
We act for the owner to protect your legal interests in the property and to do a good job. How the heck do you think an online agency gives a fek about your property and you as a landlord? they don't you are a number, that's it. They will palm off so many off shoots to get their dollar in one of which is adding to contractors bills, charging to hold the deposits, this and that fees, set up fees, etc Seriously did you not talk to a firm on the high street who has some skin in the business to make it work for both of you?
They are taking the piss, if its under warranty then you should not have a call out fee. Have they not tried to relove this without pointing you to their complaints ? Blimey we do everything possible to try and ensure we don't get any complaints and if we do we then resolve them as its good business sense.
Seriously what are all their charges? are they purple?
When I was renting, years ago, I would have loved to have come across a letting agent like you.How much is their headline commission ? and then how much are all their extra charges? The big firms who don't give a s
te will undercut to get a foot hold but they are really crap at the work they do.Did you not talk with a few agents to try and find one that would do a good job rather than perhaps the cheapest "headline rate"?
We let properties quickly but more importantly to the right tenants not the first tenants. We aim to build up a long term relationship with our landlords which benefits both of us long term not short term.
OP you mention they let it fast - its not hard to let a property - the work comes in getting the correct tenants and being careful about them and then making sure the property is looked after as you as a owner would do and yes that equates with saying to tenants they will have to wait a reasonable time for a repair if required. other times we can get things fixed very fast by local good contractors we have used for many years.
We act for the owner to protect your legal interests in the property and to do a good job. How the heck do you think an online agency gives a fek about your property and you as a landlord? they don't you are a number, that's it. They will palm off so many off shoots to get their dollar in one of which is adding to contractors bills, charging to hold the deposits, this and that fees, set up fees, etc Seriously did you not talk to a firm on the high street who has some skin in the business to make it work for both of you?
They are taking the piss, if its under warranty then you should not have a call out fee. Have they not tried to relove this without pointing you to their complaints ? Blimey we do everything possible to try and ensure we don't get any complaints and if we do we then resolve them as its good business sense.
Seriously what are all their charges? are they purple?
I was always a great tenant. Had some great landlords, and we always got on just fine.
But every letting agent was full of smarmy assholes trying to line their pockets for doing the square root of f
k all. Biggest shower of c*nts in a profession I have ever come across.
£250 to change the name on a word document and print it - letting contract charge.... yeah, f*ck off.
£175 to check peoples background.... done via a £30 service.... yeah, f
k off.One landlord told me he had been charged £750 for the new washing machine he had fitted. Currys dropped the new one off and fitted it, and took the old one away. Currys website showed this would have been £350 total.
I would not be surprised to learn that some letting agencies are closely involved with some maintenance companies, maybe even getting kickbacks. Then when they push a landlord to that supplier they make even more money. Many of them are more than shady enough.
Trabi601 said:
Huntsman said:
Me too.
Ours is a 1960's ex local authority build.
What you need is to ditch the agent, find yourself a good local sparky and plumber/gas safe. Other little stuff do yourself.
That's the thing - I farmed it out because I don't actually have time to manage it, work on it etc. I barely have time to do stuff around my house a lot of the time (lots of work related travel, staying in hotels etc., - I've spent 3 nights away each week on average, for the past I don't know how many months).Ours is a 1960's ex local authority build.
What you need is to ditch the agent, find yourself a good local sparky and plumber/gas safe. Other little stuff do yourself.
It's not mortgaged, so I'm not working on tight margins - hence being willing to pay someone else to manage it all for me!
Our tenant texts me if there's a problem, I text the sparky, the gas man, the odd job man or the gardener chap. You need a good network of the right people.
Huntsman said:
You missed my poorly articulated point.
Our tenant texts me if there's a problem, I text the sparky, the gas man, the odd job man or the gardener chap. You need a good network of the right people.
Too much like hard work. I don't want to be sorting that stuff out when I'm working away from home. Especially if I'm out of the country. And I can't respond during most working days.Our tenant texts me if there's a problem, I text the sparky, the gas man, the odd job man or the gardener chap. You need a good network of the right people.
I have an agent to do that stuff for me. Just looks like I need a different agent.
Trabi601 said:
Huntsman said:
You missed my poorly articulated point.
Our tenant texts me if there's a problem, I text the sparky, the gas man, the odd job man or the gardener chap. You need a good network of the right people.
Too much like hard work. I don't want to be sorting that stuff out when I'm working away from home. Especially if I'm out of the country. And I can't respond during most working days.Our tenant texts me if there's a problem, I text the sparky, the gas man, the odd job man or the gardener chap. You need a good network of the right people.
I have an agent to do that stuff for me. Just looks like I need a different agent.
I wonder if the agent has slapped on their uplift charge onto that bill.
Also, any decent contractor will call the tenants to ask a few questions first. Most of the time those units aren't serviceable.. or at least not econical to do so. I'd ask the make and model number over the phone once I'm sure it's dead then just quote for a replacement. It's an hours job. Shouldn't cost more than £50-£70+vat and parts to do
Those prices are ripping you
Also, any decent contractor will call the tenants to ask a few questions first. Most of the time those units aren't serviceable.. or at least not econical to do so. I'd ask the make and model number over the phone once I'm sure it's dead then just quote for a replacement. It's an hours job. Shouldn't cost more than £50-£70+vat and parts to do
Those prices are ripping you
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