Driving and drugs

[N8CYL]

My son was involved in a head on collision with a guy who was arrested for failing a roadside drugs test. Subsequently he was charged with three times over the limit for Cocaine and 2.5 times over the limit with cannabis. Also driving without due care and attention.

Anybody any idea as to what sentence he will likely get? Also will I be able to go to court and listen to what is said?

[sonnenschein3000]

N8CYL said:

My son was involved in a head on collision with a guy who was arrested for failing a roadside drugs test. Subsequently he was charged with three times over the limit for Cocaine and 2.5 times over the limit with cannabis. Also driving without due care and attention.

Anybody any idea as to what sentence he will likely get? Also will I be able to go to court and listen to what is said?

I am very sorry to hear what happened to your Son. I wish him a quick recovery, both physically and in terms of anxiety. If you don't mind me asking, what injury did he suffer?

I sincerely hope the drug driver sees serious prison time for that. I don't know what usually happens in these cases though, but I know the extent of injury to the victim plays a big role

[Dave Hedgehog]

N8CYL said:

My son was involved in a head on collision with a guy who was arrested for failing a roadside drugs test. Subsequently he was charged with three times over the limit for Cocaine and 2.5 times over the limit with cannabis. Also driving without due care and attention.

Anybody any idea as to what sentence he will likely get? Also will I be able to go to court and listen to what is said?

how much cocaine am i allowed ?

[Ki3r]

At least a 12 month ban for the drug driving. Fine based on income.

Possibly a few points (up to six I believe) for the due care.

[N8CYL]

Thank you. He suffered from internal bleeding, cuts, bruises and aches. He has got off it very lightly. Both cars are unrecognisable. The passengers in the other car were all drunk and suffered bad injuries due to not wearing seatbelts in the back. They had facial injuries, collapsed lungs, broken bones. the Drug driver came out with no injuries.

Must admit my sons Mini was superb considering the other car was a Volvo s60.

[cptsideways]

I think its similar to drink driving, though I think they have to do a drugs rehab type course too, would make sense if they did.

The figures are pretty frightening though, it appears now they can do roadside tests its far more common than drink driving.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36421367

[shovelheadrob]

I didn’t realise that they had determined a "safe" limit for drug driving. I wonder who volunteered for the testing.

[agtlaw]

N8CYL said:

My son was involved in a head on collision with a guy who was arrested for failing a roadside drugs test. Subsequently he was charged with three times over the limit for Cocaine and 2.5 times over the limit with cannabis. Also driving without due care and attention.

Anybody any idea as to what sentence he will likely get? Also will I be able to go to court and listen to what is said?

"The custody threshold is likely to be crossed where there is evidence of one or more factors that increase seriousness and one or more aggravating factors (see below). The Court should also consider imposing a disqualification in the region of 29 – 36 months.

Factors that increase seriousness (this is an exhaustive list)

- Evidence of another specified drug or of alcohol in the body
- Evidence of an unacceptable standard of driving
- Driving (or in charge of) an LGV, HGV or PSV
- Driving (or in charge of ) a vehicle driven for hire or reward

Aggravating Factors (non-exhaustive list)

- Previous convictions having regard to a) the nature of the offence to which the conviction relates and its relevance to the current offence; and b) the time that has elapsed since the conviction’
- Location e.g. near school
- Carrying passengers
- High level of traffic or pedestrians in the vicinity
- Poor road or weather conditions"

Assuming the defendant is an adult then you will be able to attend court to watch the sentencing hearing. Extremely likely that a pre-sentence report will be ordered - the case therefore adjourned to later the same day, or (more likely) another day.

[caelite]

Dave Hedgehog said:

how much cocaine am i allowed ?

Zero tolerence. Not sure how it is for coke but for weed, if you've smoke any time in the last 2-3weeks then you can't drive as there are detectable traces of THC in your system.

[Flibble]

caelite said:

Dave Hedgehog said:

how much cocaine am i allowed ?

Zero tolerence. Not sure how it is for coke but for weed, if you've smoke any time in the last 2-3weeks then you can't drive as there are detectable traces of THC in your system.

It's not actually zero.

The new limits, set by the government following a consultation on advice of doctors, include 10 micrograms of cocaine, two micrograms of cannabis and one microgram of LSD per litre of blood.

Edited by Flibble on Monday 19th December 17:28

[speedking31]

sonnenschein3000 said:

... but I know the extent of injury to the victim plays a big role

That wouldn't be sensible. Same crime, but if you collide with a fit young rugby player wearing a seatbelt you get punished less than colliding with a frail old couple who both expire?

[N8CYL]

agtlaw said:

"The custody threshold is likely to be crossed where there is evidence of one or more factors that increase seriousness and one or more aggravating factors (see below). The Court should also consider imposing a disqualification in the region of 29 – 36 months.

Factors that increase seriousness (this is an exhaustive list)

- Evidence of another specified drug or of alcohol in the body
- Evidence of an unacceptable standard of driving
- Driving (or in charge of) an LGV, HGV or PSV
- Driving (or in charge of ) a vehicle driven for hire or reward

Aggravating Factors (non-exhaustive list)

- Previous convictions having regard to a) the nature of the offence to which the conviction relates and its relevance to the current offence; and b) the time that has elapsed since the conviction’
- Location e.g. near school
- Carrying passengers
- High level of traffic or pedestrians in the vicinity
- Poor road or weather conditions"

Assuming the defendant is an adult then you will be able to attend court to watch the sentencing hearing. Extremely likely that a pre-sentence report will be ordered - the case therefore adjourned to later the same day, or (more likely) another day.

Thank you for this......Crikey, there were 5 in the other car so probably looking at a lengthy ban.

[Johnnytheboy]

speedking31 said:

sonnenschein3000 said:

... but I know the extent of injury to the victim plays a big role

That wouldn't be sensible. Same crime, but if you collide with a fit young rugby player wearing a seatbelt you get punished less than colliding with a frail old couple who both expire?

This is something about our laws in general that really bothers me. Punishment should be tailored to intent rather than outcome.

Attempted murder is no worse than murder in my book, for example.

[esxste]

Johnnytheboy said:

This is something about our laws in general that really bothers me. Punishment should be tailored to intent rather than outcome.

Attempted murder is no worse than murder in my book, for example.

It is tailored. That's why attempted murder is treated differently to murder, and why manslaughter is treated differently.

Murder and Manslaughter are different only by intent. You intended to kill, or you didn't. Attempted murder proves you had intent to kill, but the outcome is different.

Judges have a difficult job weighing up the unique factors in every case, and coming to a punishment that fits the crime. Would you for example give a harsher sentence to a battered and tormented house wife who attempts to murder her husband, or to a hardened career criminal who attempts to kill a cop escaping a bank job?

same crimes, different factors. It's not simple.

[GSalt]

N8CYL said:

Also will I be able to go to court and listen to what is said?

In general*, anyone can attend any court case to sit in the visitors' gallery to observe the proceedings. I've done it once for the experience of sitting in on a health and safety prosecution so I could see what happened.

• there are exceptions.

[agtlaw]

N8CYL said:

Thank you for this......Crikey, there were 5 in the other car so probably looking at a lengthy ban.

The defendant is probably more concerned about the likelihood of an immediate custodial sentence.

[Johnnytheboy]

esxste said:

Johnnytheboy said:

This is something about our laws in general that really bothers me. Punishment should be tailored to intent rather than outcome.

Attempted murder is no worse than murder in my book, for example.

It is tailored. That's why attempted murder is treated differently to murder, and why manslaughter is treated differently.

Murder and Manslaughter are different only by intent. You intended to kill, or you didn't. Attempted murder proves you had intent to kill, but the outcome is different.

Judges have a difficult job weighing up the unique factors in every case, and coming to a punishment that fits the crime. Would you for example give a harsher sentence to a battered and tormented house wife who attempts to murder her husband, or to a hardened career criminal who attempts to kill a cop escaping a bank job?

same crimes, different factors. It's not simple.

With respect that's a different point. I understand that motive and record might affect punishment, but that's still not outcome. If wife succeeds in murder but bank robber fails, despite meaning to kill, which is worse?

[Markbarry1977]

I don't know what kind of punishment he will get and I know things have moved on but the one that grates me the most was my cousin.

She was killed on 23 December about 15 years ago. By a drunk articulated lorry driver 3.5 times over the drink drive limit. I can't remember the points, fine ban he got. The one thing that still to this day grinds on me was the 9 months he was sentenced to. Serving just 6 months. Fortunately the only good thing was that she died instantly and didn't suffer. She was sat stationary at the back of a que of traffic on the m6 in bad weather. The driver of the lorry never even touched the brakes according to the car behind the lorry who was a witness in court. He severely injured two passengers in the car in front of my cousin as well and minor injuries to the car two in front. My cousins fiesta was crushed and she basically decapitated the top of her head on the steering wheel. All that damage and 6 months was all he served.

I wish your son a speedy recovery and I hope the drug driver gets an appropriate prison sentence although I fear you will be disappointed.

[ging84]

agtlaw said:

- Evidence of an unacceptable standard of driving

What does this mean?
Presumably there is always some level of unacceptable standard of driving or why would there be charges in the first place
So what has to have happened to increase the seriousness?

[agtlaw]

ging84 said:

What does this mean?
Presumably there is always some level of unacceptable standard of driving or why would there be charges in the first place
So what has to have happened to increase the seriousness?

Often there's no bad driving but the defendant is OPL.

Arguably speeding, but usually careless or dangerous driving. An accident or near miss would certainly qualify.