Stolen property sold at auction
Discussion
My Grandfathers military medals & OBE were stolen in a burglary shortly after his death in the 1960s. They were sold 18 months ago by a London auction house. What happened to them in the interim is a mystery. The catalogue listing highlighted that they were rare items and detailed accurately the actions for which they were awarded, named my Grandfather as the recipient and reported the units he served with during the actions for which he was decorated.
They certainly were reported stolen at the time of the burglary, but it might be a long shot to uncover the police records 50 years after the event!
I assume the auction house will be unhelpful if I ask who sold / bought them. They sold for less than £4k, had I known they were changing hands at the time I would have bought them, but that chance has gone. However I would like to get them back and give them to the IWM who have already been pleased to receive some of his military diaries. & uniforms. Suggestions for a productive approach would be really appreciated.
They certainly were reported stolen at the time of the burglary, but it might be a long shot to uncover the police records 50 years after the event!
I assume the auction house will be unhelpful if I ask who sold / bought them. They sold for less than £4k, had I known they were changing hands at the time I would have bought them, but that chance has gone. However I would like to get them back and give them to the IWM who have already been pleased to receive some of his military diaries. & uniforms. Suggestions for a productive approach would be really appreciated.
I doubt any force will hold records that far back now - my force computerised crime reporting in the 1980's - I think all paper reports were destroyed not long afterwards - certainly none exist now. May be worth checking in local newspaper archives - the Burglary may have been reported in the local press at the time
I assume you would be able to prove ownership etc through records?
Problem is they could have changed hands numerous times over the years, you can't obviously go up to the auction house and say they are yours.
Good luck if you have some kind of records, otherwise i feel you may be disappointed.
Problem is they could have changed hands numerous times over the years, you can't obviously go up to the auction house and say they are yours.
Good luck if you have some kind of records, otherwise i feel you may be disappointed.
The issue is more with knowing where they were between being stolen and sold at auction 18 months ago. The seller at auction is likely to claim they bought them from X and thought they had good title etc.
If the OP was prepared to buy them and give them to the IWM then presumably the easiest option is to write to the auction house explaining the position and asking them to contact the buyer to enquire if you can buy them of them in order to join the rest of his memorabilia at the IWM?
If the OP was prepared to buy them and give them to the IWM then presumably the easiest option is to write to the auction house explaining the position and asking them to contact the buyer to enquire if you can buy them of them in order to join the rest of his memorabilia at the IWM?
Report to Auction House and Police
Police record of the Burglary unlikely, however if the aim is for the medals to be returned to the family (rather than solve a 40+ year old offence), this would be the starting point.
The Police are unlikely to have much (any?) involvement, but the Auction House should be insured against such claims?
Police record of the Burglary unlikely, however if the aim is for the medals to be returned to the family (rather than solve a 40+ year old offence), this would be the starting point.
The Police are unlikely to have much (any?) involvement, but the Auction House should be insured against such claims?
Were the medals insured and was there a pay-out following the original theft?
If so, is it possible that they were recovered and are being auctioned off by the insurance company, the cash pay out at the time effectively releasing any 'ownership' your family has over the stolen property.
If so, is it possible that they were recovered and are being auctioned off by the insurance company, the cash pay out at the time effectively releasing any 'ownership' your family has over the stolen property.
rival38 said:
Thanks all for suggestions and thoughts.
Eventually I managed to speak to `CID historic investigations` who seem pretty interested in trying to help. They are going to try and track down the burglary report and get back to me.
Probably their cold case unit - if there isnt a crime report in existence they wont be able to find much more out for the OP unless they can find a former -officer who remembers the job. Eventually I managed to speak to `CID historic investigations` who seem pretty interested in trying to help. They are going to try and track down the burglary report and get back to me.
For those interested, after some phone calls with the local CID this is the situation: Initially they were not too hopeful that there was much they could do, they certainly have no surviving records of the burglary, as was expected. They also suggested (like a poster further up the thread) that local newspapers might have reported on it and have something in their archives. Then unexpectedly they rang back and said that if family members would make statements confirming that the items were stolen and not sold they could apply on our behalf to a magistrate to have the Medals declared stolen. I said `yes please` and we have been allocated a case officer, the statements should be taken next week.
If the magistrate issues the certificate (I forget the correct term) the police say that getting the Medals back will be `quite` simple. The Auction house have confirmed that they have the buyers details on record and will be happy to pass them to the police. However If the buyer is overseas then I think they would be a lot less optimistic. Whatever the outcome, my faith in the constabulary is somewhat restored!
If the magistrate issues the certificate (I forget the correct term) the police say that getting the Medals back will be `quite` simple. The Auction house have confirmed that they have the buyers details on record and will be happy to pass them to the police. However If the buyer is overseas then I think they would be a lot less optimistic. Whatever the outcome, my faith in the constabulary is somewhat restored!
The Auction house say they are insured to reimburse him, I imagine a fair am amount of the `buyers premium` is used maintaining that policy. The particular auction house were pretty candid on the phone and said it is a regular occurrence, and they have recently helped re unite the rightful owner with some items that they auctioned way back in 1998. Apparently a large number of Medals were stolen in the 1960`s & 70`s and have resurfaced over the last decade at auction which is one reason they have recently listed all their recent and historic sold items online.
The seller is also of interest to the police, they expect him to say `not my problem, I bought them at a car boot somewhere` but if it turns out he is a frequent seller of rare items at auction they may have more questions.
Fingers crossed anyway.
The seller is also of interest to the police, they expect him to say `not my problem, I bought them at a car boot somewhere` but if it turns out he is a frequent seller of rare items at auction they may have more questions.
Fingers crossed anyway.
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