I suspect I know the answer to this
Discussion
I was in the US for a couple of weeks this month for work, flying out of Heathrow.
When I went to the Heathrow parking site to pay for a couple of weeks in the long-term parking they had an offer on - Meet & Greet was cheaper than Long Term, so I booked that instead.
Dropped the car off in the short-term area of T5, flew to California.
Flew back from Denver to T3 on the red-eye, BA lost my luggage but kept me standing around for a couple of hours before they confirmed they'd done so, collected the car and drove myself and a colleague back to SE London.
I dropped said colleague off, parked the car, noticed that it had been reversed into something/something had driven into the back hard.
I called Heathrow, got through to the duty manager at T3, he said that as I'd driven off that was it, nothing further I could do, then put the phone down on me.
Somewhat cross with this I sent an email to the complaints department where a polite chap said he'd look into it - he was due to give me the verdict of his investigation today but that deadline appears to have slipped.
Now hope springs eternal and therefore I hope that he'll say "we saw one of the lads reverse it into a bollard on the CCTV, we'll pay for the new bumper", but I suspect that they'll say "we deny all liability".
If things to the second route do I have any other option but to claim on my insurance? Or, as is more likely, foot the bill myself?
When I went to the Heathrow parking site to pay for a couple of weeks in the long-term parking they had an offer on - Meet & Greet was cheaper than Long Term, so I booked that instead.
Dropped the car off in the short-term area of T5, flew to California.
Flew back from Denver to T3 on the red-eye, BA lost my luggage but kept me standing around for a couple of hours before they confirmed they'd done so, collected the car and drove myself and a colleague back to SE London.
I dropped said colleague off, parked the car, noticed that it had been reversed into something/something had driven into the back hard.
I called Heathrow, got through to the duty manager at T3, he said that as I'd driven off that was it, nothing further I could do, then put the phone down on me.
Somewhat cross with this I sent an email to the complaints department where a polite chap said he'd look into it - he was due to give me the verdict of his investigation today but that deadline appears to have slipped.
Now hope springs eternal and therefore I hope that he'll say "we saw one of the lads reverse it into a bollard on the CCTV, we'll pay for the new bumper", but I suspect that they'll say "we deny all liability".
If things to the second route do I have any other option but to claim on my insurance? Or, as is more likely, foot the bill myself?
How much damage is there? It will be a tricky one as there is no proof of anything - that they damaged the car -vs- you reversed into something on the way home & but 'try it on' with them all the same!
I cant imagine it will be more then £250-300 for a bumper respray & correcting any light damage, so might just be one to chalk up i'm afraid!
I cant imagine it will be more then £250-300 for a bumper respray & correcting any light damage, so might just be one to chalk up i'm afraid!
It needs a new bumper (£1,000+VAT) and paint (£450+VAT) both from the Porsche Indy who usually looks after it.
My colleague was in the car for the entire journey back to London, he can attest to us not crashing into anything, nor anything crashing into us.
Given that I'm looking at a bill of around £1,800 I don't really want to find that myself tbh.
My colleague was in the car for the entire journey back to London, he can attest to us not crashing into anything, nor anything crashing into us.
Given that I'm looking at a bill of around £1,800 I don't really want to find that myself tbh.
ouch, sorry! My price was based on my getting my bumper filled in & repainted after I reversed into/along a damn metal fence post
Got any pics of the damage? You'd be surprised at what level of damage a good bodyshop can repair, unless it is cracked/split severely.
Any CCTV they have you are aware of? On the way home pass any shops with CCTV cameras? Might be worth retracing your steps to see if you find any CCTV that covers the first Xmiles of the journey to improve your chances?
Got any pics of the damage? You'd be surprised at what level of damage a good bodyshop can repair, unless it is cracked/split severely.
Any CCTV they have you are aware of? On the way home pass any shops with CCTV cameras? Might be worth retracing your steps to see if you find any CCTV that covers the first Xmiles of the journey to improve your chances?
There MUST be some sort of CCTV at the airport showing you driving off (even just on the roads out of the airport) or the car being brought round for you to collect, Shirley? I thought modern airports and the surrounding areas would be absolutely covered in cameras after the Glasgow Airport attack.
Here it is cleaned:
And here it is as I collected it:
Reckon CCTV would pick that up? It's been reversed into something ~18" high and around 10" wide I think, just off the centre line of the car toward the passenger side. Easy enough to do if you aren't familiar with the 996 and take zero care when reversing it - I tend to sit on the sill with the door open when backing it into somewhere.
And here it is as I collected it:
Reckon CCTV would pick that up? It's been reversed into something ~18" high and around 10" wide I think, just off the centre line of the car toward the passenger side. Easy enough to do if you aren't familiar with the 996 and take zero care when reversing it - I tend to sit on the sill with the door open when backing it into somewhere.
A new bumper for that!?!? you have got to be joking.
I had actual *holes* that I gouged out on my bumper(metal fence post) which my local bodyshop fixed up for me to a *perfect* condition.
edit: This is the damage I did to mine, they did a brilliant job sorting it all. There is no way anyone could tell it has been fixed/sprayed, and even me knowing it has been sprayed can only tell by looking closely at the door shut lines where they ended the 'blending in'.
edit: And no, there is now way you could see that on a CCTV. With it dirty there is very little chance of you actually seeing that level of damage walking past it.
Get the car to a decent bodyshop -not the cheapest one your local indie can ship it out to. Leave them to the mechanics, and leave the bodywork to a bodyshop.
I had actual *holes* that I gouged out on my bumper(metal fence post) which my local bodyshop fixed up for me to a *perfect* condition.
edit: This is the damage I did to mine, they did a brilliant job sorting it all. There is no way anyone could tell it has been fixed/sprayed, and even me knowing it has been sprayed can only tell by looking closely at the door shut lines where they ended the 'blending in'.
edit: And no, there is now way you could see that on a CCTV. With it dirty there is very little chance of you actually seeing that level of damage walking past it.
Get the car to a decent bodyshop -not the cheapest one your local indie can ship it out to. Leave them to the mechanics, and leave the bodywork to a bodyshop.
Edited by Andehh on Thursday 26th January 11:52
Dammit said:
My colleague was in the car for the entire journey back to London, he can attest to us not crashing into anything, nor anything crashing into us.
You need evidence that when you left the car it was in good condition. When they collected it they wouldn't have noticed that. They don't refuse valet parking of already damaged cars. Did you take photos of your car when you left it?Any significant mileage difference during the valet parking?
Heathrow have sent me a letter saying that the form I signed to get my keys back also indemnifies them against any claim for damages against them, and recommends that I contact my insurance company to repair the damage which they deny that they caused.
I didn't read the form, beyond seeing my reg number, so I guess that's on me - would have been nice if their operative had at any point told me that what I was signing was removing any ability to come back to them on damage that they'd caused.
I didn't read the form, beyond seeing my reg number, so I guess that's on me - would have been nice if their operative had at any point told me that what I was signing was removing any ability to come back to them on damage that they'd caused.
Dammit said:
Here it is cleaned:
And here it is as I collected it:
Reckon CCTV would pick that up? It's been reversed into something ~18" high and around 10" wide I think, just off the centre line of the car toward the passenger side. Easy enough to do if you aren't familiar with the 996 and take zero care when reversing it - I tend to sit on the sill with the door open when backing it into somewhere.
that is not going to be visible on CCTV.And here it is as I collected it:
Reckon CCTV would pick that up? It's been reversed into something ~18" high and around 10" wide I think, just off the centre line of the car toward the passenger side. Easy enough to do if you aren't familiar with the 996 and take zero care when reversing it - I tend to sit on the sill with the door open when backing it into somewhere.
I think you will struggle to get anywhere with that sadly. Its too small to be picked up on CCTV and naturally they will deny it being there when you collected.
I agree though that bumper can be repaired and painted for significantly less. We had a youngster run into the back of our car, the local body shop insisted it required a new bumper skin (£900 + VAT), parking sensor, lower diffuser, bumper supports and painting...a grand total of 1800 odd. I went too another place for vague idea and they charged me £200 to repair and paint the bumper. I removed the bumper myself and left it with him for 2 days. There was NO damage behind bumper and parking sensor is just fine. I'm very very fussy with my cars and can not tell where the repair has been done. The price they gave you was for someone else to pick up the tab, where nothing is fixed and everything is replaced.
I don't agree you should be stumping up, but struggle to see how you can get them to cover it given you left before noticing it.
Good luck all the same, I would be so pissed !
I agree though that bumper can be repaired and painted for significantly less. We had a youngster run into the back of our car, the local body shop insisted it required a new bumper skin (£900 + VAT), parking sensor, lower diffuser, bumper supports and painting...a grand total of 1800 odd. I went too another place for vague idea and they charged me £200 to repair and paint the bumper. I removed the bumper myself and left it with him for 2 days. There was NO damage behind bumper and parking sensor is just fine. I'm very very fussy with my cars and can not tell where the repair has been done. The price they gave you was for someone else to pick up the tab, where nothing is fixed and everything is replaced.
I don't agree you should be stumping up, but struggle to see how you can get them to cover it given you left before noticing it.
Good luck all the same, I would be so pissed !
As others have rightly said, not a chance of picking this up on CCTV and you have signed away responsibility without realizing. About the only comeback you might have had would be if you had a dashcam that was running in the car and saw/heard a reversing manoeuvre followed by a crunch, a muttered 'oh ballcocks' and then a nonchalant whistle and a Porsche door shutting.
fastbikes76 said:
I think you will struggle to get anywhere with that sadly. Its too small to be picked up on CCTV and naturally they will deny it being there when you collected.
I agree though that bumper can be repaired and painted for significantly less. We had a youngster run into the back of our car, the local body shop insisted it required a new bumper skin (£900 + VAT), parking sensor, lower diffuser, bumper supports and painting...a grand total of 1800 odd. I went too another place for vague idea and they charged me £200 to repair and paint the bumper. I removed the bumper myself and left it with him for 2 days. There was NO damage behind bumper and parking sensor is just fine. I'm very very fussy with my cars and can not tell where the repair has been done. The price they gave you was for someone else to pick up the tab, where nothing is fixed and everything is replaced.
I don't agree you should be stumping up, but struggle to see how you can get them to cover it given you left before noticing it.
Good luck all the same, I would be so pissed !
That's bang in line with what I paid (£250-300 odd*) to repair the damage I posted above! Left car with them, collected it 2 days later with it looking as good as new!I agree though that bumper can be repaired and painted for significantly less. We had a youngster run into the back of our car, the local body shop insisted it required a new bumper skin (£900 + VAT), parking sensor, lower diffuser, bumper supports and painting...a grand total of 1800 odd. I went too another place for vague idea and they charged me £200 to repair and paint the bumper. I removed the bumper myself and left it with him for 2 days. There was NO damage behind bumper and parking sensor is just fine. I'm very very fussy with my cars and can not tell where the repair has been done. The price they gave you was for someone else to pick up the tab, where nothing is fixed and everything is replaced.
I don't agree you should be stumping up, but struggle to see how you can get them to cover it given you left before noticing it.
Good luck all the same, I would be so pissed !
edit:
As for the ''I want it looking as good as new'' you should see the half arsed, two-bit approach they use to repaint cars in the factory, docks and dealership before you even pick up the keys! A fair portion of ''new'' cars -across the entire price range- have already had localised paint jobs done on them which you would never notice!
Edited by Andehh on Thursday 26th January 14:23
Leaving aside the "how much to fix" question, I'm quite annoyed about Heathrow seeking only to dismiss my claim rather than to provide any sort of service.
What would be the likely outcome of taking this to (say) the small claims court?
I'm going to struggle on evidence, what I do have is a picture of the car before I set off to show it was spotless (albeit not the rear bumper), then a shot of the car as collected with the dirt making it clear that the damage happened after the car had arrived at Heathrow.
I've also got my colleague's testimony that it wasn't us who pranged it.
Laughed out of court?
What would be the likely outcome of taking this to (say) the small claims court?
I'm going to struggle on evidence, what I do have is a picture of the car before I set off to show it was spotless (albeit not the rear bumper), then a shot of the car as collected with the dirt making it clear that the damage happened after the car had arrived at Heathrow.
I've also got my colleague's testimony that it wasn't us who pranged it.
Laughed out of court?
laughed out of court I think - though IANAL.
You have absolutely no way of proving they did the damage, and no way of proving it categorically wasn't there before you dropped the car off. Even in small claims where it is entirely based on the balance of probabilities you have nothing to show they are responsible.
If you washed it the day before & had pictures of the localised area looking brand new, or had it professionally detailed/resprayed the day before, then reported it the damage to them the minute you got home then maybe....but other then that it is simply your word vs theres
You have absolutely no way of proving they did the damage, and no way of proving it categorically wasn't there before you dropped the car off. Even in small claims where it is entirely based on the balance of probabilities you have nothing to show they are responsible.
If you washed it the day before & had pictures of the localised area looking brand new, or had it professionally detailed/resprayed the day before, then reported it the damage to them the minute you got home then maybe....but other then that it is simply your word vs theres
so you dont have a photo of the damaged area before the damage, you have no cctv, you have a friend who will say you didnt crash but the damage is that minor it would be hard to see when clean.
Afraid you have to cough up this time, invest in a good dash cam and park your car yourself next time
Afraid you have to cough up this time, invest in a good dash cam and park your car yourself next time
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