Scotland access rights in private estate
Discussion
What are the rules on passing through an estate that is privately owned under the scottish land reform.
Every google seatch I do comes back as as long as you are not going through someones garden and not causing privacy issues you can but the estate in question has a sign say private land access only during days x & y at certain times.
This didn't worry me as a kid but questioning it now.
The area to go through is only a 500 yard stretch that allows you to access lots of forrestry tracks without a couple mile detour.
Every google seatch I do comes back as as long as you are not going through someones garden and not causing privacy issues you can but the estate in question has a sign say private land access only during days x & y at certain times.
This didn't worry me as a kid but questioning it now.
The area to go through is only a 500 yard stretch that allows you to access lots of forrestry tracks without a couple mile detour.
I was intending doing some walking in the Letterewe estate by Loch Maree and I 'phoned the estate office to clear it and they said to avoid deer stalking months for my own safety. As I understand it, though, what you said is correct regarding access. I am not a Scot nor am I a recent visitor to the Highlands so I could very easily be wrong.
Walking on foot should be ok.
If it's within a walled area, then I might reconsider. For me it would depend very much on the individual situation and as said above subject to things such as shooting or farming activities taking place.
Where is it and what are you wanting access to/for?
If it's within a walled area, then I might reconsider. For me it would depend very much on the individual situation and as said above subject to things such as shooting or farming activities taking place.
Where is it and what are you wanting access to/for?
There is a wall if you access from one side but forrest from thw other.
It is to pass through to get to a large forest for walks with dog etc. If you dont pass through its an extra couple miles to get to the same walks. The houses you pass within the grounds woukd be as if you passed a house in the street.
It is to pass through to get to a large forest for walks with dog etc. If you dont pass through its an extra couple miles to get to the same walks. The houses you pass within the grounds woukd be as if you passed a house in the street.
JM said:
Why is there a sign saying access on certain days/times?
What is that access to?
The wall is two miles long?
The sign saysWhat is that access to?
The wall is two miles long?
No access
Estate grounds and gardens
Are strictly private
Except tues & friday
Note prepared in accordance with scottish outdooor access code.
So googled about that and cant find anything that supports the signs restrictions.
The wall isn't 2 miles long but to access the area on the other side of the signed section of estate is about 2 miles extra which when you have kids is a long way extra above what a 500yd if that section of road you pass over.
[quote=ninja-lewis]Probably lacks legal authority to deny access but perhaps intended to deter access during periods of certain activity (shoots/forestry operations etc)?[/quote
The area signed is no where near where shoots happen but there is occasional tree pruning etc. By the estate staff but is always well signed when near the through roads of the estate.
The area signed is no where near where shoots happen but there is occasional tree pruning etc. By the estate staff but is always well signed when near the through roads of the estate.
westtra said:
There is a wall if you access from one side but forrest from thw other.
It is to pass through to get to a large forest for walks with dog etc. If you dont pass through its an extra couple miles to get to the same walks. The houses you pass within the grounds woukd be as if you passed a house in the street.
Well if it's a big house, particularly one with estate houses for staff etc., have a look at the following:It is to pass through to get to a large forest for walks with dog etc. If you dont pass through its an extra couple miles to get to the same walks. The houses you pass within the grounds woukd be as if you passed a house in the street.
outdooraccess-scotland.com said:
The Access Code says:
Access rights do not extend to houses and gardens. In some cases, the extent of a garden might be difficult to judge. Things to look out for in judging whether an area of land close to a house is a garden or not include:
A clear boundary, such as a wall, fence, hedge or constructed bank, or a natural boundary like a river, stream or loch
A lawn or other area of short mown grass
Flowerbeds and tended shrubs, paving and water features
Sheds, glasshouses and summer houses
Vegetable and fruit gardens (often walled but sometimes well away from houses).
Some larger houses are surrounded by quite large areas of land referred to as the "policies" of the house. Parts of the policies may be intensively managed for the domestic enjoyment of the house and these will include some of the features listed above. Access rights do not extend to these intensively managed areas.
What you're describing does seem to suggest that you would be going through areas within the policies of the house(s) so would be classed as private. If anything, the land owner seems to be quite generous in giving any access. Saying that "it's like walking past a house on the the street" doesn't cut it; the Scottish Land Access Rights are not a carte blanche to go trampling through private gardens, and they allow land and home owners to be able to retain the privacy of their homes and gardens. . Access rights do not extend to houses and gardens. In some cases, the extent of a garden might be difficult to judge. Things to look out for in judging whether an area of land close to a house is a garden or not include:
A clear boundary, such as a wall, fence, hedge or constructed bank, or a natural boundary like a river, stream or loch
A lawn or other area of short mown grass
Flowerbeds and tended shrubs, paving and water features
Sheds, glasshouses and summer houses
Vegetable and fruit gardens (often walled but sometimes well away from houses).
Some larger houses are surrounded by quite large areas of land referred to as the "policies" of the house. Parts of the policies may be intensively managed for the domestic enjoyment of the house and these will include some of the features listed above. Access rights do not extend to these intensively managed areas.
QuickQuack said:
westtra said:
There is a wall if you access from one side but forrest from thw other.
It is to pass through to get to a large forest for walks with dog etc. If you dont pass through its an extra couple miles to get to the same walks. The houses you pass within the grounds woukd be as if you passed a house in the street.
Well if it's a big house, particularly one with estate houses for staff etc., have a look at the following:It is to pass through to get to a large forest for walks with dog etc. If you dont pass through its an extra couple miles to get to the same walks. The houses you pass within the grounds woukd be as if you passed a house in the street.
outdooraccess-scotland.com said:
The Access Code says:
Access rights do not extend to houses and gardens. In some cases, the extent of a garden might be difficult to judge. Things to look out for in judging whether an area of land close to a house is a garden or not include:
A clear boundary, such as a wall, fence, hedge or constructed bank, or a natural boundary like a river, stream or loch
A lawn or other area of short mown grass
Flowerbeds and tended shrubs, paving and water features
Sheds, glasshouses and summer houses
Vegetable and fruit gardens (often walled but sometimes well away from houses).
Some larger houses are surrounded by quite large areas of land referred to as the "policies" of the house. Parts of the policies may be intensively managed for the domestic enjoyment of the house and these will include some of the features listed above. Access rights do not extend to these intensively managed areas.
What you're describing does seem to suggest that you would be going through areas within the policies of the house(s) so would be classed as private. If anything, the land owner seems to be quite generous in giving any access. Saying that "it's like walking past a house on the the street" doesn't cut it; the Scottish Land Access Rights are not a carte blanche to go trampling through private gardens, and they allow land and home owners to be able to retain the privacy of their homes and gardens. . Access rights do not extend to houses and gardens. In some cases, the extent of a garden might be difficult to judge. Things to look out for in judging whether an area of land close to a house is a garden or not include:
A clear boundary, such as a wall, fence, hedge or constructed bank, or a natural boundary like a river, stream or loch
A lawn or other area of short mown grass
Flowerbeds and tended shrubs, paving and water features
Sheds, glasshouses and summer houses
Vegetable and fruit gardens (often walled but sometimes well away from houses).
Some larger houses are surrounded by quite large areas of land referred to as the "policies" of the house. Parts of the policies may be intensively managed for the domestic enjoyment of the house and these will include some of the features listed above. Access rights do not extend to these intensively managed areas.
The grounds and gardens are completely seperate from each other. But as you say the grounds could be deamed as gardens by the rules which I hadn't considered.
The road I use to get through is a continuation of a public road that passes right through the walled/signed off section of the grounds/woods.
westtra said:
I see your thinking and why I asked on here for a different perspective.
The grounds and gardens are completely seperate from each other. But as you say the grounds could be deamed as gardens by the rules which I hadn't considered.
The road I use to get through is a continuation of a public road that passes right through the walled/signed off section of the grounds/woods.
Phone the estate office and just ask.The grounds and gardens are completely seperate from each other. But as you say the grounds could be deamed as gardens by the rules which I hadn't considered.
The road I use to get through is a continuation of a public road that passes right through the walled/signed off section of the grounds/woods.
I've walked almost every field between Reading and Winchester with the landowners' permission.
It is always funny to see the "ramblers" with their OS maps. They are confined to the public footpaths while we are welcome to go wherever we like.
westtra said:
I see your thinking and why I asked on here for a different perspective.
The grounds and gardens are completely seperate from each other. But as you say the grounds could be deamed as gardens by the rules which I hadn't considered.
The road I use to get through is a continuation of a public road that passes right through the walled/signed off section of the grounds/woods.
The grounds and gardens are completely seperate from each other. But as you say the grounds could be deamed as gardens by the rules which I hadn't considered.
The road I use to get through is a continuation of a public road that passes right through the walled/signed off section of the grounds/woods.
Then it could be any of several things really; a private road within the policies despite the seeming continuation, a public right of way that already exists, or a private road on land which isn't within the policies which means you might have access if on foot etc. I think ringing up the estate office as suggested abouve should be useful, they might even turn round and say that despite the notice and being within the policies, you are allowed to go through when you're walking your dogs. Although I'm in England and I'm having some problems with a
hole trespassers who have damaged fencing and gates where there is no RoW or footpath or any other access requirement, I have never turned down a request when contacted and asked. Let's hope the landowner up there lets you go through every day 
As others have said, ask the owners.
The Scottish Parliament have made all sorts of new laws which purport to improve things for the great unwashed majority at the expense of horrible nasty rich landowners, when in reality they've stuck their oar into what was already a well balanced and fair system (there never was such a thing as 'trespass' in Scotland).It was never against the law to walk through someone else's land as long as you weren't disturbing the owners property, activities, or right to privacy.
As QuickQuack says above, some houses have gardens/policies which aren't covered by the outdoor access code and I suspect this will be the situation in your case but the owners have already indicated by their notice that they are willing to tolerate some intrusion. I'd imagine that if they have already done this, they may be willing to extend this tolerance to someone who approaches them in a reasonable way, however, if you start getting all militant, shouting about your rights and involving various access 'professionals', you may just wind them up the wrong way and they end up withdrawing the current access they give.
We live in a small (20 acres )clearing in the middle of a large commercial forest. The forest was originally a small farming estate and the clearing was the 'policy lands' for the 'big hoose'. The 'big hoose' has long since been knocked down and we live in the former stables building but the policy lands are officially classed as our garden. The access road is ours but access rights are given to the forest owners. The forest is covered by the Outdoor Access Code but the access road to and through our land and the land itself is not. We are happy to give access to the public to reach the forest and hills beyond our land, but I have on occasion thrown people off our land when they were taking the piss (dogs and quad bikes in our paddock). One complained to the local access officer who came to visit me with a bee in his bonnet but when the situation was explained to him and it was pointed out that access was not a right but was given voluntarily by us and could be withdrawn anytime, he accepted that, apologised, thanked us for our continuing generosity and left it at that.
I'd advise you to approach the landowner and ask nicely.
The Scottish Parliament have made all sorts of new laws which purport to improve things for the great unwashed majority at the expense of horrible nasty rich landowners, when in reality they've stuck their oar into what was already a well balanced and fair system (there never was such a thing as 'trespass' in Scotland).It was never against the law to walk through someone else's land as long as you weren't disturbing the owners property, activities, or right to privacy.
As QuickQuack says above, some houses have gardens/policies which aren't covered by the outdoor access code and I suspect this will be the situation in your case but the owners have already indicated by their notice that they are willing to tolerate some intrusion. I'd imagine that if they have already done this, they may be willing to extend this tolerance to someone who approaches them in a reasonable way, however, if you start getting all militant, shouting about your rights and involving various access 'professionals', you may just wind them up the wrong way and they end up withdrawing the current access they give.
We live in a small (20 acres )clearing in the middle of a large commercial forest. The forest was originally a small farming estate and the clearing was the 'policy lands' for the 'big hoose'. The 'big hoose' has long since been knocked down and we live in the former stables building but the policy lands are officially classed as our garden. The access road is ours but access rights are given to the forest owners. The forest is covered by the Outdoor Access Code but the access road to and through our land and the land itself is not. We are happy to give access to the public to reach the forest and hills beyond our land, but I have on occasion thrown people off our land when they were taking the piss (dogs and quad bikes in our paddock). One complained to the local access officer who came to visit me with a bee in his bonnet but when the situation was explained to him and it was pointed out that access was not a right but was given voluntarily by us and could be withdrawn anytime, he accepted that, apologised, thanked us for our continuing generosity and left it at that.
I'd advise you to approach the landowner and ask nicely.
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