Buying a car but not telling the DVLA

[ewand]

Here's a scenario that I'd like some opinions on, or experience of, if I may...

Let's say I was going to buy a car from a mate, and it had (say) 3 months road tax remaining. With the VED rules now, I should tax the car before purchase (starting from the 1st of the month). My vendor mate can request a refund of outstanding tax, but it'll only be until the end of the previous month (so the DVLA manages to collect the tax twice for the month when purchase occurs, the cheeky fkers).

What if I agreed with my mate that I'd just pay him the amount he'd get back from the DVLA, and don't bother telling them I've bought the car until the tax runs out? They say now that tax isn't transferred on purchase (from https://www.gov.uk/sold-bought-vehicle:

You must tax a vehicle you’ve bought before you drive it, or declare it off the road (a SORN). The tax isn’t transferred to you when you buy the vehicle.)

But buying a car (ie being the legal owner) and being the registered keeper are different things. If I bought a car for cash, as long as it's insured in my name, what does it matter if the registered keeper (and the person who is registered as taxing it last) is different?

What if I wait until the very end of the last month of the tax validity, then inform them (via V5C etc) that I'm now the keeper and not my mate, and buy tax as of the 1st of the next month?

I'm considering buying a car and might well sell it within a few months anyway; I pay enough friggin road tax as it is, so not paying the DVLA £50 for the month of purchase makes me think on principle, it's worth doing this. Thoughts?

[threespires]

It's a cheeky way for .gov to get 2 months tax for every car sold privately.
How about your pal putting it on SORN & you buy it off him on the 1st of the following month.

[xjay1337]

ewand said:

Here's a scenario that I'd like some opinions on, or experience of, if I may...

Let's say I was going to buy a car from a mate, and it had (say) 3 months road tax remaining. With the VED rules now, I should tax the car before purchase (starting from the 1st of the month). My vendor mate can request a refund of outstanding tax, but it'll only be until the end of the previous month (so the DVLA manages to collect the tax twice for the month when purchase occurs, the cheeky fkers).

What if I agreed with my mate that I'd just pay him the amount he'd get back from the DVLA, and don't bother telling them I've bought the car until the tax runs out? They say now that tax isn't transferred on purchase (from https://www.gov.uk/sold-bought-vehicle:

You must tax a vehicle you’ve bought before you drive it, or declare it off the road (a SORN). The tax isn’t transferred to you when you buy the vehicle.)

But buying a car (ie being the legal owner) and being the registered keeper are different things. If I bought a car for cash, as long as it's insured in my name, what does it matter if the registered keeper (and the person who is registered as taxing it last) is different?

What if I wait until the very end of the last month of the tax validity, then inform them (via V5C etc) that I'm now the keeper and not my mate, and buy tax as of the 1st of the next month?

I'm considering buying a car and might well sell it within a few months anyway; I pay enough friggin road tax as it is, so not paying the DVLA £50 for the month of purchase makes me think on principle, it's worth doing this. Thoughts?

I think you don't want to do anything dodgy or illegal...

[Fastpedeller]

I went to view a Fiesta for sale many years ago (xr2), and asked all the relevant questions over the 'phone, eg how long you owned it etc. What I didn't think of doing was to ask if it was registered in his name (I'd have thought if he said "owned it 2 weeks")Anyway, I looked all round, viewed V5, and matched chassis numbers etc, then looked at the address! I pointed out "But your name/address isn't on this, I thought you said you'd owned it 4 years?" 'I have, but I never register my cars - that one over there isn't registered in my name, It's no bother I've not been speeding' Hasty exit from me, telling him I'm not interested. A bit gobsmacked .... 4 Years. That could have been a hefty bill for RFL down to me. Too risky.

[ging84]

just date the transfer the last day of the month you bought it and tax it the day after

[anonymous-user]

Check your insurance policy as if your not the registered keeper you might not be insured.

Is your mate also going to take responsibility for any parking fines/speeding fines you may incur while using the vehicle.

I'd never risk it, even for a 'vendor mate'

[ewand]

DELETED: Comment made by a member who's account has been deleted.

Average VED on PH though... It's not hard to find cars with VED of £500+, or £40/month. in truth, it's as much about minimum hassle as anything else - like is the vendor going to faff about getting a refund, and is the buyer going to want to make sure they've bought the tax before picking up the car, versus a handshake that I'll give you the cash for the tax remaining as part of the deal, and we'll just wait a little while before telling the authorities in one hit versus 2 or 3.

And to the point about doing something illegal... well, is it, really? Is it illegal to not tell the DVLA that you've taken ownership of a car without becoming its registered keeper? Insurance wise, when you take a policy out it usually asks "who will be the registered keeper?" but does it make a difference on timing?

I agree this wouldn't be worth doing for a long time, but maybe for 1 or 2 months...?

[ewand]

NewRulesPaul said:

Is your mate also going to take responsibility for any parking fines/speeding fines you may incur while using the vehicle.

This is probably the only real gotcha as far as I can see. I'm not suggesting this would be a mate down the pub kind of arrangement, more a close pal who would be accommodating as required.

[Zetec-S]

threespires said:

It's a cheeky way for .gov to get 2 months tax for every car sold privately.
How about your pal putting it on SORN & you buy it off him on the 1st of the following month.

+1 for SORN

[JagerT]

Tell the DVLA you're a Freeman of the land and you no longer want the car registered on their system.
you can then use the car without having to pay tax or comply with any of their laws or regulations.
This is a FACT.I read it on the Interweb.

[55palfers]

xjay1337 said:

I think you don't want to do anything dodgy or illegal...

Sir Phillip Green's advisors said.

[sim16v]

ging84 said:

just date the transfer the last day of the month you bought it and tax it the day after

As above, easiest way to do it.

Your mate notifies DVLA online that he has sold it to you on the last day of the month, you tax it the next morning.

[BertBert]

There's nothing illegal about it. The dvla have no interest in ownership. Only if the RK changes. There is nothing to say it has to.
Bert

[KevinCamaroSS]

BertBert said:

There's nothing illegal about it. The dvla have no interest in ownership. Only if the RK changes. There is nothing to say it has to.
Bert

So where will the car be kept? It is a keeper change.

[Ste1987]

From an insurer's perspective you won't be the registered keeper of the car, so you'd have to declare that when you change your policy.

[S11Steve]

ging84 said:

just date the transfer the last day of the month you bought it and tax it the day after

This is the most sensible answer, and what many fleets are doing at the moment.

In regards to being "the Keeper", this is not necessarily the same as Registered Keeper, and there is precedent to support this. It's also a very useful case to cite in parking ticket claims for fleet users. (House of Cars Ltd v Derby Car and Van Rental (2012) C.T.L.C. 62 if anyone is interested)

[Gavia]

DELETED: Comment made by a member who's account has been deleted.

Completely agree. The worst case scenario is £50, it's hardly a huge amount of money when you look at the macro-economy, no matter how much you roll it up.

[The Mad Monk]

S11Steve said:

This is the most sensible answer, and what many fleets are doing at the moment.

In regards to being "the Keeper", this is not necessarily the same as Registered Keeper, and there is precedent to support this. It's also a very useful case to cite in parking ticket claims for fleet users. (House of Cars Ltd v Derby Car and Van Rental (2012) C.T.L.C. 62 if anyone is interested)

Is this the same thing?

Quote

"House of Cars v Derby Car and Van Contracts Ltd, [2012] C.T.L.C. 62.

June 2012

Pre-registered vehicles; Misleading omissions; Registered keepers; Third parties; Vehicle registration.
The practice whereby car dealers sold pre-registered cars whilst retaining the V5C ‘Log book’ in order to obtain manufacturer’s discounts and which the industry as a whole had hitherto regarded as legitimate a legitimate practice, was unlawful".

[S11Steve]

The Mad Monk said:

Is this the same thing?

Quote

"House of Cars v Derby Car and Van Contracts Ltd, [2012] C.T.L.C. 62.

June 2012

Pre-registered vehicles; Misleading omissions; Registered keepers; Third parties; Vehicle registration.
The practice whereby car dealers sold pre-registered cars whilst retaining the V5C ‘Log book’ in order to obtain manufacturer’s discounts and which the industry as a whole had hitherto regarded as legitimate a legitimate practice, was unlawful".

Yes, I have a full transcript with the salient points highlighted that I use as a defence against private parking ticket court claims.
Not quite a silver bullet for everyone, but hasn't let me down yet.

[BertBert]

I think it's strange, but there is no definition of what keeper means with regard to actually keeping the car in the sense of where the car is stored/parked/fed/watered/polished etc.

The RK has responsibilities under the law (such as in S172). But there is no obligation of actually keeping.

KevinCamaroSS said:

So where will the car be kept? It is a keeper change.