How long should SORN take? Deceased owner

[Dr Mike Oxgreen]

I have recently re-registered my late father's two cars to me, and am concerned because one of them is now showing as untaxed.

I did it via the DVLA's "Sensitive Casework Team". Put both V5Cs in the same envelope, having torn off and kept the new keeper supplement parts, together with a V890 SORN request for each car. Covering letter explaining my relationship to the deceased and explaining that I wanted both cars to be SORN.

Yesterday, after about 3 weeks I received the V5Cs in my name for both cars, but I'm concerned about the status of one of the cars as reported by the https://www.gov.uk/check-vehicle-tax page.

The first car is a 1999 Citroen Xantia, which is parked on his driveway and hasn't moved for over a decade. It was SORNed, and is still being reported as SORN. The tax/SORN status of this car hasn't changed at any stage. So probably no problem there.

The second car is a 2013 Ford B-Max. It was taxed, insured and MOTed. It briefly changed to "not taxed keeper change" about 5 days ago, and then changed to simply "not taxed" and is still like that. Hasn't changed to SORN, despite my V890 request in the same envelope as the V5C.

At what point should I be concerned about the status of the Ford?

And actually, I would now like to tax the Ford, having added myself as a named driver to my Dad's insurance (they confirmed that cover will continue until the policy expires in October). Should I wait longer before attempting to tax it? I wouldn't want to find that the SORN is applied a few days later after I've just taxed it!

[AdeTuono]

You're adding yourself to your dead father's insurance? How odd is that?

[TooMany2cvs]

Dr Mike Oxgreen said:

Yesterday, after about 3 weeks I received the V5Cs in my name for both cars

At what point should I be concerned about the status of the Ford?

And actually, I would now like to tax the Ford, having added myself as a named driver to my Dad's insurance (they confirmed that cover will continue until the policy expires in October). Should I wait longer before attempting to tax it? I wouldn't want to find that the SORN is applied a few days later after I've just taxed it!

Am I missing something? Why not just tax it online, using the doc ref in your name, right now. It'll take seconds and you'll know it's just done...

If you want shot of the Xant, drop me a line, and I'll put word out amongst the chevron-bothering community.

[Dr Mike Oxgreen]

AdeTuono said:

You're adding yourself to your dead father's insurance? How odd is that?

It is standard practice. Insurance companies offer it for free so that relatives can move the car, or for example drive it to WeBuyAnyCar to sell it.

TooMany2cvs said:

Am I missing something? Why not just tax it online, using the doc ref in your name, right now. It'll take seconds and you'll know it's just done....

The bit you're missing is that there may be a SORN in progress at DVLA. If I tax it now, I may find that the SORN gets processed in a few days' time and un-taxes the car again. This is why I wanted to know how long it should take, so I know how long to wait before attempting to tax it myself.

[TooMany2cvs]

Dr Mike Oxgreen said:

TooMany2cvs said:

Am I missing something? Why not just tax it online, using the doc ref in your name, right now. It'll take seconds and you'll know it's just done....

The bit you're missing is that there may be a SORN in progress at DVLA. If I tax it now, I may find that the SORN gets processed in a few days' time and un-taxes the car again. This is why I wanted to know how long it should take, so I know how long to wait before attempting to tax it myself.

No, I'm not missing anything. Just do it. The SORN has clearly gone awol. I suspect that they did the SORN first, then the keeper change, which cancelled the SORN.

[Dr Mike Oxgreen]

TooMany2cvs said:

The SORN has clearly gone awol.

That's pure assumption, for which you have no evidence.

[spitfire-ian]

TooMany2cvs said:

I suspect that they did the SORN first, then the keeper change, which cancelled the SORN.

That would be my thoughts too.

[Gavia]

Dr Mike Oxgreen said:

TooMany2cvs said:

The SORN has clearly gone awol.

That's pure assumption, for which you have no evidence.

What evidence do you have that it's not gone AWOL? The fact they're not SORN suggests that TooMany2cvs has some evidence.

You can SORN or tax either car online now that you've got the V5s. The old paper forms won't supersede what you do online today.

Edited for crappy typing

Edited by Gavia on Friday 3rd March 16:43

[Dr Mike Oxgreen]

Gavia said:

What evidence do you have thatbits not gone AWOL? The fact my SORN suggests that TooMany2cvs has some evidence.

Leaving aside the fact that what you've written barely makes any sense, TooMany is the one making the claim, and he's the one who needs evidence to back that claim up, otherwise it's just conjecture.

I am not claiming that it has gone astray, neither am I claiming that it hasn't. I'm keeping an open mind. Either is possible - which is why I don't really want to tax it yet, given the possibility that my tax might be overridden by the SORN that may be in progress.

I don't see why that's so hard to understand.

[TooMany2cvs]

Dr Mike Oxgreen said:

Leaving aside the fact that what you've written barely makes any sense, TooMany is the one making the claim, and he's the one who needs evidence to back that claim up, otherwise it's just conjecture.

I am not claiming that it has gone astray, neither am I claiming that it hasn't. I'm keeping an open mind. Either is possible - which is why I don't really want to tax it yet, given the possibility that my tax might be overridden by the SORN that may be in progress.

I don't see why that's so hard to understand.

<shrug> Fine. So SORN it online now. Then, when you're quite happy that this AWOL SORN definitely isn't going to pop up, tax it. I'd suggest leaving it until about... ooh... August. Next year.

[Gavia]

Dr Mike Oxgreen said:

Leaving aside the fact that what you've written barely makes any sense, TooMany is the one making the claim, and he's the one who needs evidence to back that claim up, otherwise it's just conjecture.

I am not claiming that it has gone astray, neither am I claiming that it hasn't. I'm keeping an open mind. Either is possible - which is why I don't really want to tax it yet, given the possibility that my tax might be overridden by the SORN that may be in progress.

I don't see why that's so hard to understand.

I've edited my fatfingered crappy iPhone typing.

It's highly likely that it has gone astray. The postal process is that you register in your name, wait for the V5, then SORN it, or you do it all instantly online. As with most large organisations, different teams will deal with different aspects of vehicles and often these teams will never interact. It's quite possible that the team that changes RKs doesn't deal with SORN and they either threw your letter / forms away or it got lost en route to the right department.

While you're sealing in ifs, buts and maybes, the SORN or tax claockmis ticking and you could end up with a nasty letter (no chance of a fine yet) telling you to SORN / tax it.

You could always ring DVLA to ask them.

Edited by Gavia on Friday 3rd March 16:49

[Dr Mike Oxgreen]

TooMany2cvs said:

So SORN it online now.

Actually, that's not a bad idea.

But I'd still be interested if anyone can actually answer my question. Does anyone have experience of this particular branch of DVLA and how long it generally takes them to do things?

[Dr Mike Oxgreen]

Gavia said:

The postal process is that you register in your name, wait for the V5, then SORN it

No it isn't, at least not in the specific case of doing it for a deceased owner's car and using the DVLA's "Sensitive Casework Team".

The process is clearly described on this page, which tells you to include the V890 SORN request at the same time as sending the V5C.

It seems unlikely to me that the V890 has gone astray, because both V890s were in the same envelope as both V5Cs. I know for certain that the V5Cs have been processed, because I now have both V5Cs in my name.

Anyway, the safest course of action is to do another online SORN, wait for the status to change to SORN, then wait another week or so before taxing it.

Gavia said:

The fact they're not SORN suggests that TooMany2cvs has some evidence.

The Citroen is showing as SORN, which implies that one V890 was correctly processed. It seems somewhat unlikely that the other V890 in the same envelope has gone astray.

Edited by Dr Mike Oxgreen on Friday 3rd March 17:18

[Gavia]

Dr Mike Oxgreen said:

The Citroen is showing as SORN, which implies that one V890 was correctly processed. It seems somewhat unlikely that the other V890 in the same envelope has gone astray.

Edited by Dr Mike Oxgreen on Friday 3rd March 17:18

Why is it unlikely? It's very easy for someone to process one and no the other. If you don't want to believe it's gone astray, then that's your call and registering it SORN now is fine. However, remember that you can't unSORN within some bizarre timeframe, so don't start posting about that.

[TooMany2cvs]

Dr Mike Oxgreen said:

The Citroen is showing as SORN, which implies that one V890 was correctly processed. It seems somewhat unlikely that the other V890 in the same envelope has gone astray.

...and yet the keeper change shows that other V890 HAS been processed, so it's the expected SORNing that's gone astray, not the V890. Quite probably because they did the SORN first, which was then cancelled by the keeper change.

Thinking about it, it could well make sense for the sensitive case team to do it that way - because that means they can override the normal keeper-change generation of the tax refund, so get the refund issued separately, manually. Then it's the new keeper's responsibility to proceed as normal by SORNing or taxing, according to their own requirements - that bit's not part of the sensitive case. Their raison d'etre is to handle getting it out of the deceased's name.

The Xant was already SORNed, so no refund to worry about - so that's the one they've dropped the bk with, by SORNing on behalf of the new keeper, even though that's not their problem.

[Dr Mike Oxgreen]

But this page makes it crystal clear that you're meant to be able to tell them to re-register and SORN the car simultaneously. Why else would they suggest including the V890 in the same envelope?

[TooMany2cvs]

Dr Mike Oxgreen said:

But this page makes it crystal clear that you're meant to be able to tell them to re-register and SORN the car simultaneously. Why else would they suggest including the V890 in the same envelope?

You are absolutely determined to take the maximum offence, and make the most hassle for yourself, aren't you?

Just tax the bloody thing. Or SORN it manually, and wait until you've satisfied yourself it's not going to bite you.

[Dr Mike Oxgreen]

TooMany2cvs said:

You are absolutely determined to take the maximum offence, and make the most hassle for yourself, aren't you?

Nope. I've simply followed DVLA's instructions to the letter.

And I have no idea where you think I've taken offence to anything.

I simply think your hypothesis about the way the DVLA Sensitive Casework Team works is wrong, because it doesn't fit with their published instructions. Do you acknowledge that their instructions make it clear you're supposed to be able to re-register a deceased person's car and SORN it simultaneously, or are you too lazy to read the instructions on the page I've linked to?

Here, I'll make it easy (my emphasis added):

DVLA said:

If you have the vehicle log book (V5C)
[*]Fill in section 6 of the V5C.
[*]Tear off and keep the green ‘new keeper’s details’ slip (V5C/2).
[*]Write a letter explaining your relationship to the person who died, the date they died and who should be paid any vehicle tax refund.
[*]Send the V5C with your letter to the DVLA Sensitive Casework Team. Also include form V890 if you want to register the vehicle as off the road (SORN) instead of taxing it.
[*]DVLA will immediately cancel any existing vehicle tax and direct debits, and send a cheque for any refund and a new V5C within 4 weeks.
[*]Use the V5C/2 to tax the vehicle in your name before you use it on a public road. Don’t wait for the new V5C.

Edited by Dr Mike Oxgreen on Friday 3rd March 18:38

[TooMany2cvs]

I don't care about their "published instructions". I'm simply applying common sense and practicality to get to the quickest and easiest resolution.

[Dr Mike Oxgreen]

TooMany2cvs said:

I don't care about their "published instructions".

Yup. That fits with virtually everything I've ever read from you on PH. You don't care about facts; TooMany is always right.