Rented property, two people on lease one leaves - locks....?
Discussion
A friend has just suffered a rather acrimonious break up with his girlfriend.
They were renting a place together, both named on the lease, however he was paying for everything (she is unemployed).
He wants to change the locks - and the letting agent has agreed to this however - the letting agent says he can't change the locks until the ex girlfriend is removed from the lease - however she is being difficult about this.
She is on the lease for naming purposes only - nothing more.
Where does my friend stand legally, if he just changes the locks of his own accord, before the ex is removed from the lease?
They were renting a place together, both named on the lease, however he was paying for everything (she is unemployed).
He wants to change the locks - and the letting agent has agreed to this however - the letting agent says he can't change the locks until the ex girlfriend is removed from the lease - however she is being difficult about this.
She is on the lease for naming purposes only - nothing more.
Where does my friend stand legally, if he just changes the locks of his own accord, before the ex is removed from the lease?
Tenants have the right to change the locks whenever they want, they don't even need to tell the LL or agent the locks have been changed.
(Assuming you change the locks without damaging the door as the cost to fix can be take off the deposit, also I'd recommend keeping the old locks and then replacing them at the end of the lease)
Although the ex is on the lease so has right of entry. That needs to be resolved before she involves the police etc.
(Assuming you change the locks without damaging the door as the cost to fix can be take off the deposit, also I'd recommend keeping the old locks and then replacing them at the end of the lease)
Although the ex is on the lease so has right of entry. That needs to be resolved before she involves the police etc.
Edited by AndrewEH1 on Thursday 30th March 12:39
Andehh said:
Can't tenants do as they see fit in the property, proving they leave it as was when they first moved in?
So tenant could change the locks himself, just leave a keys with landlord/leasing agent - leaves the problem with the tenant?
LL/agent doesn't legally require keys, although we ask our tenants if they are happy we retain a set in case they lock themselves out or in case of emergency and get them to sign a bit of paper stating this. So far all tenants have been happy with that.So tenant could change the locks himself, just leave a keys with landlord/leasing agent - leaves the problem with the tenant?
My understanding is that the letting agent is telling my friend that he (my friend) cannot legally change the locks because the ex g/f is still listed on the lease.
I don't think he has a problem with the locks being changed as such.
It's more the legal position of the ex still being named on the lease.
EDIT: I missed the edit.
I don't think he has a problem with the locks being changed as such.
It's more the legal position of the ex still being named on the lease.
EDIT: I missed the edit.
AndrewEH1 said:
<snip>
Although the ex is on the lease so has right of entry. That needs to be resolved before she involves the police etc.
Although the ex is on the lease so has right of entry. That needs to be resolved before she involves the police etc.
Edited by AndrewEH1 on Thursday 30th March 12:39[/footnote]
[footnote]Edited by TonyRPH on Thursday 30th March 12:48Depends on the situation with the GF, if he's having constant hassle or if she's buggered off never to be seen again. I've been through the latter, but changed the locks to be on the safe side. Bought them from B&Q for about £30 and changed them myself, took about 10 mins. Didn't tell the landlord or the agent, they still don't even know. I'll either put the old ones in when I leave or just give them the new keys.
If there's hassle then as said earlier it can bring in the issue of denying entry for someone on the lease, but surely the LL or agent can just create a new one without her name. My agent did and called round a few days later for me to sign the new lease.
If there's hassle then as said earlier it can bring in the issue of denying entry for someone on the lease, but surely the LL or agent can just create a new one without her name. My agent did and called round a few days later for me to sign the new lease.
TonyRPH said:
The letting agent concerned won't do anything until she signs an agreement to be removed from the lease.
I find this rather odd.
Why is this odd? They are also not concerned on her behalf either. They are looking after the owner and the agency to make sure they are not sued.I find this rather odd.
Both of you (you as in your friend and her) are on the TA. Legally you both are liable until the end of the tenancy. If one leaves then the tenancy will ends for both at the end of the fixed term or the notice period.
The agents are protecting the owner and themselves. Why would they get involved in your domestic dispute? You both are liable until then end of the fixed term or if rolling you give the correct notice. Are you still in a fixed term? When does it end?
If one wants to stay on then a new TA will need to be produced, a letter of surrender from the other tenant will need to be signed. New deposit paid, old deposit finalised. She would be mad to surrender the property when she has you paying the rent.
You cant exclude her from the property. She is a tenant as much as your friend is.
Edited by superlightr on Friday 31st March 10:28
For the sake of clarity - this really is a friend.
We thought it was odd, because the ex is refusing to release herself from the tenancy agreement, despite initially telling the letting agent otherwise by telephone.
We understand that the letting agent has to abide by the agreement, and this post was really intended to establish if anything could be done under such circumstances.
My friend is inclined to remain in the house for the foreseeable future, however he is uncomfortable knowing that the ex remains in possession of keys and the right to enter the property at any time, simply because she is still named on the agreement.
She (the ex) is just being awkward.
Likewise, he can't give notice because she will need to agree to this as well.
I'm sure you understand...
We thought it was odd, because the ex is refusing to release herself from the tenancy agreement, despite initially telling the letting agent otherwise by telephone.
We understand that the letting agent has to abide by the agreement, and this post was really intended to establish if anything could be done under such circumstances.
My friend is inclined to remain in the house for the foreseeable future, however he is uncomfortable knowing that the ex remains in possession of keys and the right to enter the property at any time, simply because she is still named on the agreement.
She (the ex) is just being awkward.
Likewise, he can't give notice because she will need to agree to this as well.
I'm sure you understand...
TonyRPH said:
For the sake of clarity - this really is a friend.
We thought it was odd, because the ex is refusing to release herself from the tenancy agreement, despite initially telling the letting agent otherwise by telephone.
We understand that the letting agent has to abide by the agreement, and this post was really intended to establish if anything could be done under such circumstances.
My friend is inclined to remain in the house for the foreseeable future, however he is uncomfortable knowing that the ex remains in possession of keys and the right to enter the property at any time, simply because she is still named on the agreement.
She (the ex) is just being awkward.
Likewise, he can't give notice because she will need to agree to this as well.
I'm sure you understand...
that's not correct with an AST -- he can give notice to coincide with the end of the fixed term or if roll on a months notice. It ends the TA for both. How long is the fixed term or is it a roll on?We thought it was odd, because the ex is refusing to release herself from the tenancy agreement, despite initially telling the letting agent otherwise by telephone.
We understand that the letting agent has to abide by the agreement, and this post was really intended to establish if anything could be done under such circumstances.
My friend is inclined to remain in the house for the foreseeable future, however he is uncomfortable knowing that the ex remains in possession of keys and the right to enter the property at any time, simply because she is still named on the agreement.
She (the ex) is just being awkward.
Likewise, he can't give notice because she will need to agree to this as well.
I'm sure you understand...
Edited by superlightr on Friday 31st March 21:11
ok then they are both liable until the end. your m8 needs to give notice to coincide with the end of the TA. He then can walk away.
If he can get her to sign a surrender doc and the LL agree the GF can walk before the end of the TA.
If he can get her to sign a surrender doc and the LL agree the GF can walk before the end of the TA.
Edited by superlightr on Saturday 1st April 00:31
Edited by superlightr on Saturday 1st April 00:40
How about your friend stops paying the rent, I'd imagine that once the ex finds out she's equally responsible for any monies owed, she'll want her name off the lease sharpish.
I'm not suggesting deliberately trying to live there for free, just long enough to spur the girlfriend into action.
I'm not suggesting deliberately trying to live there for free, just long enough to spur the girlfriend into action.
Digger said:
Leaving the lease aside, does the girlfriend have any reason at all to access the property? Does she have any personal property or belongings there? Has she found herself somewhere else to live?
She still has belongings there but will be collecting them soon (apparently).So of course she still has reason to access the property in the eyes of the law.
As far as finding somewhere else to live - she must be somewhere but is keeping very quiet about it.
If it were me, I'd just change the locks, or barrels. I'd keep the old ones and put them back on when I left.
Legally it has absolutely nothing to do with the agent or landlord, the only issue they can have is getting the house back in the same condition that it was at the start of the lease.
The legal aspect is between him and his ex. She has a legal right to enter the house, so can kick up a stink if she comes "home" and can't get in, but Practically, what's she going to do?
In his situation I'd arrange to have her things dropped off, nicely, and then get the locks changed. If she turns up and demands entry then that's the time to have a conversation about what it is that she wants. If she can't show proof of paying any rent then I don't imagine any legal authority in the land is going to physically force him to let her in.
Legally it has absolutely nothing to do with the agent or landlord, the only issue they can have is getting the house back in the same condition that it was at the start of the lease.
The legal aspect is between him and his ex. She has a legal right to enter the house, so can kick up a stink if she comes "home" and can't get in, but Practically, what's she going to do?
In his situation I'd arrange to have her things dropped off, nicely, and then get the locks changed. If she turns up and demands entry then that's the time to have a conversation about what it is that she wants. If she can't show proof of paying any rent then I don't imagine any legal authority in the land is going to physically force him to let her in.
James_B said:
If it were me, I'd just change the locks, or barrels. I'd keep the old ones and put them back on when I left.
Legally it has absolutely nothing to do with the agent or landlord, the only issue they can have is getting the house back in the same condition that it was at the start of the lease.
The legal aspect is between him and his ex. She has a legal right to enter the house, so can kick up a stink if she comes "home" and can't get in, but Practically, what's she going to do?
In his situation I'd arrange to have her things dropped off, nicely, and then get the locks changed. If she turns up and demands entry then that's the time to have a conversation about what it is that she wants. If she can't show proof of paying any rent then I don't imagine any legal authority in the land is going to physically force him to let her in.
^^^^^agree with most of the above, keys do get lost, and tenant/s in such a situation, for security reasons, will have to replace locks/barrels etc. Legally it has absolutely nothing to do with the agent or landlord, the only issue they can have is getting the house back in the same condition that it was at the start of the lease.
The legal aspect is between him and his ex. She has a legal right to enter the house, so can kick up a stink if she comes "home" and can't get in, but Practically, what's she going to do?
In his situation I'd arrange to have her things dropped off, nicely, and then get the locks changed. If she turns up and demands entry then that's the time to have a conversation about what it is that she wants. If she can't show proof of paying any rent then I don't imagine any legal authority in the land is going to physically force him to let her in.
If I was the ex boyfriend tenant in question, I would replace lock/barrel etc., report to police i have lost my set of house keys. I would not advise either the agent or the ex girlfriend of my action, the same to protect my interests, rental property my personal belongings getting vandalised, or in the case of the latter stolen.
As the above poster indicated, any reasonable person would understand the reason/s why the remaining tenant has changed the lock/barrel.
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