Right of Way and the Responsibilities of Drivers Behind You
Discussion
Dear all,
I was hoping for the benefit of the PH collective wisdom...to resolve a 'discussion' with my wife!
We live in the Middle East and were driving home, through Dubai on a motorway. For those who aren't familiar, Dubai's junctions and signage are notoriously tricky and many people make last minute decisions about which lane they should be in to get on to a particular exit. In practice, this means that you often get people suddenly realising they are in the wrong lane and making a quick change of direction without much indication.
My wife was driving. We suddenly realised that we needed to be in the next lane over to the left to avoid going down the wrong exit. So she checked her mirrors, indicated and moved over...and we ended up going across the chevrons just before the motorway split, doing about 50mph.
Another car was undertaking all the other traffic, at significantly higher speed (I'd say 20-25mph more), in the lane that we entered. Said car had to stomp on his brakes and flashed his lights/beeped in annoyance, and then skimmed past us by straddling our lane and the next one and using a gap between the cars in the other lane.
My wife's reaction was, 'I indicated...he was undertaking...I saw him in my mirror but he was a long way away...I didn't know he was going so fast. It's his fault'. And then followed that with, 'He was behind me...it's his responsibility to avoid me if I pull out having indicated'.
We then got into a long 'discussion' about right of way, and applied that situation as if we'd been in the UK. I'm rather ashamed to admit that I don't know what the actual rules are for this sort of thing in Dubai...but I suspect I'm not alone in that as it's all a bit random with drivers from all over the world seemingly driving as they would in their home countries!
So I said that it was her responsibility to judge the speed/distance and not to cause other vehicles to have to brake or change lane to avoid her. Despite the fact he was undertaking and doing considerably more speed, I said that if I was a policeman, I'd have laid the blame on her...with maybe 20% on him due to his undertaking/speed. Ultimately, having left it too late, the onus was on us to not change lanes and put up with the hassle of taking the wrong exit and getting ourselves back on track later.
She was so adamant that I was wrong that I wondered if things had changed in the time since I passed my test in 1990 (she did hers about 10 years later) or if I've had it wrong from that start?
Thanks all,
J.
I was hoping for the benefit of the PH collective wisdom...to resolve a 'discussion' with my wife!
We live in the Middle East and were driving home, through Dubai on a motorway. For those who aren't familiar, Dubai's junctions and signage are notoriously tricky and many people make last minute decisions about which lane they should be in to get on to a particular exit. In practice, this means that you often get people suddenly realising they are in the wrong lane and making a quick change of direction without much indication.
My wife was driving. We suddenly realised that we needed to be in the next lane over to the left to avoid going down the wrong exit. So she checked her mirrors, indicated and moved over...and we ended up going across the chevrons just before the motorway split, doing about 50mph.
Another car was undertaking all the other traffic, at significantly higher speed (I'd say 20-25mph more), in the lane that we entered. Said car had to stomp on his brakes and flashed his lights/beeped in annoyance, and then skimmed past us by straddling our lane and the next one and using a gap between the cars in the other lane.
My wife's reaction was, 'I indicated...he was undertaking...I saw him in my mirror but he was a long way away...I didn't know he was going so fast. It's his fault'. And then followed that with, 'He was behind me...it's his responsibility to avoid me if I pull out having indicated'.
We then got into a long 'discussion' about right of way, and applied that situation as if we'd been in the UK. I'm rather ashamed to admit that I don't know what the actual rules are for this sort of thing in Dubai...but I suspect I'm not alone in that as it's all a bit random with drivers from all over the world seemingly driving as they would in their home countries!
So I said that it was her responsibility to judge the speed/distance and not to cause other vehicles to have to brake or change lane to avoid her. Despite the fact he was undertaking and doing considerably more speed, I said that if I was a policeman, I'd have laid the blame on her...with maybe 20% on him due to his undertaking/speed. Ultimately, having left it too late, the onus was on us to not change lanes and put up with the hassle of taking the wrong exit and getting ourselves back on track later.
She was so adamant that I was wrong that I wondered if things had changed in the time since I passed my test in 1990 (she did hers about 10 years later) or if I've had it wrong from that start?
Thanks all,
J.
Ok thanks. We were speaking specifically about whether the same situation in the UK would be my conclusions or hers. So that's cool.Moonhawk said:
The UK highway code confers no 'right of way' under any circumstances - so your wife would be wrong.
^ This.She wouldn't have had priority, either. Sure, the other car shouldn't have been passing on the wrong side - but two wrongs don't make a right. She made a manoeuvre without it being clear to do so, because she didn't observe properly. She had to make that last minute manoeuvre because she'd failed to plan.
jezzaaa said:
We suddenly realised that we needed to be in the next lane over to the left to avoid going down the wrong exit. So she checked her mirrors, indicated and moved over.
More often than not here in the UK when drivers decide to change lanes (be it a snap decision or long planned), the indicator comes on, the manouevre is started and then (and only then) the mirrors are checked.If there turns out to be another vehicle in the way then it seems to be a case of 'tough, my indicators were on and you should have made way for me'.
The same the world over, perhaps ?
Having driven in Dubai a few times.... it really is like an episode of wacky racers compared to the UK.
In the UK, changing lanes means you are manoeuvring into a space on the road where someone else has priority. You should only do so if you would not cause them to slow or deviate. So if they have to brake, or turn to avoid you, then you ballsed up.
In Dubai, I have no idea on the legalities, but have heard it is more about who you are and who you know when the police turn up.
In the UK, changing lanes means you are manoeuvring into a space on the road where someone else has priority. You should only do so if you would not cause them to slow or deviate. So if they have to brake, or turn to avoid you, then you ballsed up.
In Dubai, I have no idea on the legalities, but have heard it is more about who you are and who you know when the police turn up.
spookly said:
Having driven in Dubai a few times.... it really is like an episode of wacky racers compared to the UK.
Probably explains why the UAE has a fatality rate over 3 times that of the UK per capita (and 7.5 times that of the UK per vehicle).OP's wife obviously doing her best to try and keep the UEA right up there too
Here's the OP's wife's theory being tested in the UK ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PmcWKtn_Fyk&fe...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PmcWKtn_Fyk&fe...
Having just come back from a week in India, I suspect the rules and expectations are somewhat different abroad.
There are two basic rules:
- Don't hit anyone.
- Don't get hit
Other than that, it is a complete free for all. You assume that every other car around you is going to pull a totally insane stunt at any moment, and the idea of being in a "lane" seems rather quaint. It's amusing in urban traffic, but absolutely terrifying on an expressway.
Note also that use of the horn may just be a warning with no malice involved. My driver just used it as we would use indicators.
So by English rules - your wife should not have crossed the chevrons, he probably wasn't technically undertaking as he was going in a different direction. However, considering his closing speed, he should have anticipated problems.
By non-European rules - no one died, so it doesn't matter.
There are two basic rules:
- Don't hit anyone.
- Don't get hit
Other than that, it is a complete free for all. You assume that every other car around you is going to pull a totally insane stunt at any moment, and the idea of being in a "lane" seems rather quaint. It's amusing in urban traffic, but absolutely terrifying on an expressway.
Note also that use of the horn may just be a warning with no malice involved. My driver just used it as we would use indicators.
So by English rules - your wife should not have crossed the chevrons, he probably wasn't technically undertaking as he was going in a different direction. However, considering his closing speed, he should have anticipated problems.
By non-European rules - no one died, so it doesn't matter.
rxe said:
Having just come back from a week in India, I suspect the rules and expectations are somewhat different abroad.
There are two basic rules:
- Don't hit anyone.
- Don't get hit
Other than that, it is a complete free for all. You assume that every other car around you is going to pull a totally insane stunt at any moment, and the idea of being in a "lane" seems rather quaint. It's amusing in urban traffic, but absolutely terrifying on an expressway.
Note also that use of the horn may just be a warning with no malice involved. My driver just used it as we would use indicators.
So by English rules - your wife should not have crossed the chevrons, he probably wasn't technically undertaking as he was going in a different direction. However, considering his closing speed, he should have anticipated problems.
By non-European rules - no one died, so it doesn't matter.
This is about right. The British fascination with the "rules" when it comes to accidents or near misses is unhelpful. If the OP's wife is actually interested in driving safely then she shouldn't be concerned with who was at fault, she should reflect on what she did and whether a potentially dangerous situation could have been avoided - by her. I've driven in lots of different countries including in the third world and as above the objective is not to have an accident, for many reasons. This principle should be applied anywhere including in the UK. There are two basic rules:
- Don't hit anyone.
- Don't get hit
Other than that, it is a complete free for all. You assume that every other car around you is going to pull a totally insane stunt at any moment, and the idea of being in a "lane" seems rather quaint. It's amusing in urban traffic, but absolutely terrifying on an expressway.
Note also that use of the horn may just be a warning with no malice involved. My driver just used it as we would use indicators.
So by English rules - your wife should not have crossed the chevrons, he probably wasn't technically undertaking as he was going in a different direction. However, considering his closing speed, he should have anticipated problems.
By non-European rules - no one died, so it doesn't matter.
There is no point being "correct" but dead, injured or simply facing a big repair/insurance bill.
Moonhawk said:
spookly said:
Having driven in Dubai a few times.... it really is like an episode of wacky racers compared to the UK.
Probably explains why the UAE has a fatality rate over 3 times that of the UK per capita (and 7.5 times that of the UK per vehicle).OP's wife obviously doing her best to try and keep the UEA right up there too
Although I guess that could also be a negative with 4x4s squishing the smaller cars.
DocSteve said:
This is about right. The British fascination with the "rules" when it comes to accidents or near misses is unhelpful. If the OP's wife is actually interested in driving safely then she shouldn't be concerned with who was at fault, she should reflect on what she did and whether a potentially dangerous situation could have been avoided - by her. I've driven in lots of different countries including in the third world and as above the objective is not to have an accident, for many reasons. This principle should be applied anywhere including in the UK.
There is no point being "correct" but dead, injured or simply facing a big repair/insurance bill.
Especially in the UAE!!!There is no point being "correct" but dead, injured or simply facing a big repair/insurance bill.
I was in lane 1, chap in lane 2 wanted to turn through lane 1 to take the exit, he put on the indicator and pulled left straight into me.
When I remonstrated with him he said it was my fault as he "had the indicator on so you should have moved".
Based on that experience I'd say that level of knowledge in the UK would side with your wife's analysis of the situation.
When I remonstrated with him he said it was my fault as he "had the indicator on so you should have moved".
Based on that experience I'd say that level of knowledge in the UK would side with your wife's analysis of the situation.
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