Speed limit for 2001 Citroën Berlingo / Peugeot Partner van?

[sorachan]

I couldn't find a definitive answer on Google, so I thought I'd ask here:
Do any of you know from experience whether a first generation Citroën Berlingo (or a Peugeot Partner for that matter, they're nearly identical) is considered a car-derived van when it comes to speed limits?

[SpamDisco]

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/car-der...

If it gross weight is over 2 tonnes, it is a van.
If its below 2 tonnes, its a grey area that could be messy trying to fight.

[sorachan]

SpamDisco said:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/car-der...

If it gross weight is over 2 tonnes, it is a van.
If its below 2 tonnes, its a grey area that could be messy trying to fight.

From the information I could find on the internet about the first-generation Berlingo 1.9D, the gross weight is below 2 tonnes, 1840kg according to most websites. How would I find out whether it's registered as a car-derived van in the governmental databases, is there a specific entry in the V5C? My V5C is yet to arrive, so I can't check that at the moment. What I do know is that the tax class is listed as "PRIVATE/LIGHT GOODS (PLG)".

[KungFuPanda]

I asked about this at a speed awareness course and couldn't get a straight answer. Both of the instructors were flummoxed.

[normalbloke]

What car is a Berlingo based on?
My last run in with the law was a speed awareness course for 70 on a d/c in a Berlingo. I knew I was over the limit. Speed awareness course. Van limits apply.

[giantdefy]

Long thread on Pepipoo about Berlingos and speeding

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=1069...

[kdri155]

I successfully had a ticket rescinded by my local force, North Wales Police, about a year agor for doing 72mph on the A55 by Rhuallt I was driving my 54 plate Citroen dispatch, it does have windows in both sliding side doors, with a row of 3 seats and is insured as a "dayvan"

Ticket stated that the speed limit for my class of vehicle was 60mph, I notified them them of the weight, changes inside with photos and also an explanation that this class of van was car derived having being based on the Citroen/Fiat/Peugeot people carriers.

[Joe5y]

It's a car derived van. Normal speed limits apply.

[giantdefy]

Joe5y said:

It's a car derived van. Normal speed limits apply.

Not necessarily, depends on what it is registered as at the DVLA and that is at the whim of the salesman it would seem

http://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/2005/7/28/confusio...

[TooMany2cvs]

normalbloke said:

What car is a Berlingo based on?

ZX/306/Xsara floorpan, mechanicals.

Then, of course, there's the B'ling Multispace sprogbus. But the van came first, so is it a van-derived car...?

If GVW is <2t (look on the VIN plate of THAT particular vehicle - there's different payload variants), then it'd be hard to argue that something you can buy with or without windows and seats is anything but a CDV. But, if it came to it, how hard would you want to push it?

[Big Al.]

sorachan said:

I couldn't find a definitive answer on Google, so I thought I'd ask here:
Do any of you know from experience whether a first generation Citroën Berlingo (or a Peugeot Partner for that matter, they're nearly identical) is considered a car-derived van when it comes to speed limits?

OP you should be able to post now.

[SS2.]

giantdefy said:

Not necessarily, depends on what it is registered as at the DVLA and that is at the whim of the salesman it would seem..

That's not correct - it's what the vehicle actually is, not what it might be recorded / registered as.

[Retroman]

giantdefy said:

Long thread on Pepipoo about Berlingos and speeding

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=1069...

Joe5y said:

It's a car derived van. Normal speed limits apply.

Try reading the Pepipoo story / case above.
Police said it was a commercial vehicle. Owner said car derived van.
Took it to court somehow.

[sorachan]

Retroman said:

Try reading the Pepipoo story / case above.
Police said it was a commercial vehicle. Owner said car derived van.
Took it to court somehow.

Read through the entire thread. Dude lost the case [see post #164] due to Citroën insisting that it's a panel van, even if the vehicle satisfies the definition from the governmental advice website - it has a laden gross weight of less than 2 tonnes and it's based on a platform used for both cars and vans (namely, the platform used for the Citroen ZX and the Peugeot 306.) However, I'm still unsure whether the OP in this thread was the owner of a first- or second-gen Berlingo, so it might be worth a shot trying to find out whether this applies to my 2001 Berlingo.

I reckon I should wait for the V5C to arrive first and have a look at the "body type" section as I take it that this is what decides whether or not 70 on a dual carriageway would or would not trigger speed cameras?

[SS2.]

sorachan said:

How would I find out whether it's registered as a car-derived van in the governmental databases, is there a specific entry in the V5C? My V5C is yet to arrive, so I can't check that at the moment. What I do know is that the tax class is listed as "PRIVATE/LIGHT GOODS (PLG)".

As above, neither tax class nor V5C classification are of any relevance when determining whether a 'van' is subject to special speed limits for its class.

[sorachan]

SS2. said:

As above, neither tax class nor V5C classification are of any relevance when determining whether a 'van' is subject to special speed limits for its class.

Then what is the criterion which may or may not trigger speed cameras? From a technical point of view, I'd strongly suspect they don't determine make and model by "looking" at the vehicle but instead run the licence plate against a database which must have an entry specifying whether or not a vehicle is a CDV? Any insights on that?

[SS2.]

sorachan said:

Then what is the criterion which may or may not trigger speed cameras?

It's how a vehicle is constructed (and its MLW) which determines whether or not it is car derived for the purposes of special speed limits for its class.

sorachan said:

From a technical point of view, I'd strongly suspect they don't determine make and model by "looking" at the vehicle but instead run the licence plate against a database which must have an entry specifying whether or not a vehicle is a CDV?

I strongly suspect camera operators are very adept at determining whether or not a van is car derived by simply looking.

And there isn't a definitive database (DVLA or elsewhere) which confirms whether a van is or isn't car derived.

[TooMany2cvs]

SS2. said:

I strongly suspect camera operators are very adept at determining whether or not a van is car derived by simply looking.

But less adept at determining whether the GVW is above or below the magic 2,000kg figure.

[scorcher]

Recent post from the T5 forum may be of some interest............

[QUOTE]
I have just been caught speeding in my van, should have been more careful before you all pile in to me! Was doing 74 on a dual Carriageway.

I have a couple of questions:

1) My van is a T30 SWB registered as N1 Panel Van, so I'm on the lower speed limits (60mph in this case), but has a second row of seats fitted and windows, so it's primary purpose is carrying passengers. Has anyone been successful in using this as a defence?

2) Apart from registering my van as a camper, which it's not, is there a way to reclassify the van to get the higher speed category?

Any help/ thoughts would be welcome![/QUOTE]

And here's the outcome........
[QUOTE]Final Update:

Received a letter this morning from the Rozzers confirming that they agreed that my vehicle meets the critieria for a Dual-Purpose Vehicle, however is not registered as such on the V5, which notes Panel Van.

So, they've decided not pursue the speeding ticket but told me to get my V5 updated.

On a separate note, I've received earlier confirmation from the Department for Transport that if a vehicle is altered to meet the requirements for a dual-purpose vehicle, the upper speed limits apply, regardless if the vehicle category (N1 in my case). They have also stated that I can amend the body type from Panel Van to Dual-Purpose Vehicle in the same why people change theirs to Campervan.

So in summary, if you have a van which is classed as N1 and is fitted with seat/windows and weights less than 2040kg unladen, get the body type changed to "Dual-Purpose Vehicle" and you can drive along at 70mph on dual carriageways and 60mph on A-roads.

[/quote]

[SS2.]

Post said:

Received a letter this morning from the Rozzers confirming that they agreed that my vehicle meets the critieria for a Dual-Purpose Vehicle, however is not registered as such on the V5, which notes Panel Van.

Quite correct, because the vehicle classification is not relevant when deciding whether special speed limits apply.