Price for clutch refurbishment doubled after work completed

[InitialDave]

I had a performance (paddle type) clutch from a very big name company that had a lot of wear, so I wanted to have it refurbished. I contacted the manufacturer, and it was something they did, but they didn't have any kind of "cash sale" facility, so the idea was I would pay them via a local garage/tuner who is an agent for their products.

All my discussions were direct with an engineer there.

The clutch was dropped off with them to be assessed for whether it could be refurbished, which took a few months to get round to due to them being busy at the time - this was fine, I knew it was the case going in.

A month ago, when I checked in with him, he said that the pressure plate was basically fine, and the driven plate could be refurbished:

Clutch Company said:

The driven plate requires new Damper Springs are Re-Padding.
Do you wish to retain [existing fitment] spline size or does your new installation require a different spline?
Re spring and re-pad will cost approx. £90 +vat.

If you are OK with that let me know and it should be ready during next week.

I replied agreeing to this:

I said:

Yes, that all sounds fine to me. I'll keep it as the [existing] fitment, as I'm using a [standard fitment] gearbox.

You mentioned previously that you don't really have a facility for "cash sale" arrangements, and I'd be best to sort out the payment via [local specialist]. If that's still the case, could you let me know the best way to do that?

That was the last communication.

Today, I had a phonecall from someone at a different motorsport parts shop saying he had my clutch from the manufacturer, and the bill was £198 plus delivery plus VAT (!).

Obviously, I queried this:

I said:

Bit of an issue here I'm afraid, I've had a call from [other company], who says he has a clutch for me, and the cost is £198 plus delivery plus vat?

This is significantly more than we discussed, and I was expecting more like £90-100 plus vat, as an ex-works price I'd make collection/delivery arrangements for, with the payment being via [local specialist] here in [town].

And the response was a curt

Clutch Company said:

The price quoted was approx.. You need to contact [other company] for their response?

Now, I don't really think this is on. I agreed to a price, and even if it's an estimate, I'd expected maybe a 10% "st happens" cost increase, and I was happy for it to be ex-works as I'd sort out the delivery/collection myself. Plus, having sent it to this other company, it's been added to their shipment of parts and charged for, so right this minute they're out of pocket for a clutch they had nothing to do with prior to this.

Had they come back to me with that price, I'd have politely turned it down and taken it elsewhere (note, this is more than they charge for a brand new driven plate!), though I'd have been ok with a small charge for the testing they did.

The guy from the other company mentioned the plate looked really good, to the point he suspected it was a new one rather than a refurb, but I really can't see why they'd substitute it with a new one - not without saying something, especially after having checked it was reworkable.

What's the best way for me to deal with this?

My view is that this is just straight up wrong. I agreed a price after they assessed what I wanted them to do, and other than a mild increase by the nature of it being an estimate, that's the end of it. They owe me my original pressure plate and a refurbished driven plate, and I owe them £90 plus vat, and they can't just say "oh, it was just an estimate, pay up".

If they don't like that, then they should just give me back my original stuff, which is obviously quite difficult if they've refurbished it.

I feel bad for the poor bugger caught in the middle, and would be very tempted to say to him to return it and refuse the charge to him, but I guess it's possible I'd be better to pay him, get the clutch, and then go after the manufacturer for the difference in cost?

I don't actually need it for anything urgently, so I can afford to take a longer approach to get the right result.

[Countdown]

£198+vat isn't "approximately £90+vat".

It depends how badly you need it, what the cost of telling them to FO is and just buying a new clutch etc.

[InitialDave]

Countdown said:

£198+vat isn't "approximately £90+vat".

It depends how badly you need it, what the cost of telling them to FO is and just buying a new clutch etc.

New clutch is thick end of £500 (£490ish).

I do "need" it in the sense of I'm not just going to walk away from it and tell them to FO, but I don't need it urgently, so if it would take a month or two to straighten out, I can handle that.

[Ahbefive]

Sounds like one of both of them ia taking the Micky somewhat.

[JM]

Which company did you deliver the part to?

Who did the work?

Who has it now?

[InitialDave]

JM said:

Which company did you deliver the part to?

Who did the work?

Who has it now?

All my discussions were with the original manufacturer.

I delivered the clutch to the original manufacturer.

The original manufacturer did the work.

The clutch is now held by a third party who sells their products.

[trickywoo]

InitialDave said:

All my discussions were with the original manufacturer.

I delivered the clutch to the original manufacturer.

The original manufacturer did the work.

The clutch is now held by a third party who sells their products.

I'd say your contract is with the manufacturer and its their problem the third party is so far out on price.

It wasn't a complicated job and the work done didn't change from the point it was agreed at £90 so that is what you should be paying.

I'd contact the manufacturer again and set out why you think the contract is with them and not the third party and that you want your refurbushed clutch back in return for the agreed £90 + VAT. If they play silly beggers you may have to go small claims but I can't see a judge coming down on their side with the facts presented as you have here.

They will have the facility for receiving payment one way or the other so don't be fobbed off by that.

[Willy Nilly]

InitialDave said:

New clutch is thick end of £500 (£490ish).

I do "need" it in the sense of I'm not just going to walk away from it and tell them to FO, but I don't need it urgently, so if it would take a month or two to straighten out, I can handle that.

So worst case, you are going to be spending half what a new clutch is, what am I missing here? I don't see a problem.

[JM]

I'd go to the company who has your part with £108 in cash and a copy of the email saying it would be £90 + vat.

See what they say, and if they can justify or show a reason why they are charging so much.
Ask to see their bill from the company that did the work.


Good luck!

[trickywoo]

Willy Nilly said:

So worst case, you are going to be spending half what a new clutch is, what am I missing here? I don't see a problem.

Third party is charging an unagreed £100 / 110% handling fee. That's the problem.

[InitialDave]

trickywoo said:

I'd say your contract is with the manufacturer and its their problem the third party is so far out on price.

It wasn't a complicated job and the work done didn't change from the point it was agreed at £90 so that is what you should be paying.

I'd contact the manufacturer again and set out why you think the contract is with them and not the third party and that you want your refurbushed clutch back in return for the agreed £90 + VAT. If they play silly beggers you may have to go small claims but I can't see a judge coming down on their side with the facts presented as you have here.

They will have the facility for receiving payment one way or the other so don't be fobbed off by that.

It sounded when I spoke to them like the third party company were simply passing on to me the cost they'd been invoiced by the manufacturer, not that they've paid £90 and are hitting me for a big profit margin.

If that were the case, I'd have expected more of a "well, we DID charge that!" protest from the manufacturer when I questioned it.

Agree on the small claims, I'd probably win, though I find it a little ridiculous that I might have to go to that length for it.

With the payment, I agree that there's usually a way to give people money if you try hard enough, but I wasn't that bothered about the idea of going through the place local to me, as I think they'd be ok with it, I mentioned it to them when I was in there for something else and they seemed fine with the idea in principle.

I'm mainly looking for an idiocy check that there isn't something I don't know about meaning they're perfectly entitled to do this, and advice on how best to escalate through a sequence of "polite letter" -> "impolite letter" -> "small claims" -> "find ways to cause trouble" or whatever the best approach would be.

Willy Nilly said:

So worst case, you are going to be spending half what a new clutch is, what am I missing here? I don't see a problem.

Of course you don't, you're Willy Nilly.

Leaving aside them more than doubling what was agreed? Because the new cost is an entire new clutch, the bit they've refurbished is just the driven plate, which (1) I could have bought new in the first place and still had my old one as a spare and (2) I could have had refurbished cheaper/faster elsewhere but was ok with waiting because I felt the original manufacturer would do the best job.

JM said:

I'd go to the company who has your part with £108 in cash and a copy of the email saying it would be £90 + vat.

See what they say, and if they can justify or show a reason why they are charging so much.
Ask to see their bill from the company that did the work.
Good luck!

They have had the email chain forwarded to them so they know I'm not trying it on, plus I don't want to start strongarming them unnecessarily, as the guy there's been nice enough to talk to, and really does seem an innocent party in all this.

Again, I definitely think it's the manufacturer that's bumped the cost, not them.

trickywoo said:

Third party is charging an unagreed £100 / 110% handling fee. That's the problem.

Someone is. I won't accuse them of it without being sure.

[InitialDave]

Ok, I've had a think, how does this sound as a response?

email to manufacturer said:

I don't think it is an at all reasonable interpretation of "approximately" to more than double the price over the original quote, particularly given that that price was given after you had assessed the plate for being reworked, and being the original manufacturer, should have an extremely accurate reference for what is involved. Further to this, at no point did you contact me to discuss an increase in price.

In addition, I did not agree to the clutch being sent to [other company] for them to act as an intermediary in the transaction, and [name of guy] there should not be needing to get involved in this, particularly if - as I understand it - he has been charged for the work done already. My agreement to carry out this work was with [manufacturer], and if you were unable to do so for the price stated, you should have contacted me before starting, not passed it on to a third party to deal with.

My suggestion for how to proceed with this is that [name of guy] at [other company] returns the clutch to your site, as he has been dragged into this through no fault of his own, and does not need to be involved further, certainly not in a way that involves expenditure for him.

If you then provide me the correct order reference or similar to use to do so, I will talk to [local company] about paying for the work, as we discussed previously, or am happy to make the payment through another company if there is a reason that is more convenient.

[manufacturer] will receive a payment of £90 plus VAT (£108 total) as agreed for the work carried out, exclusive of delivery charges, as an "ex-works" order.

I will then make arrangements to collect the clutch from your site.

[hyphen]

Has the other company added a markup for handling goods/payment?

Also I would consider giving them a call rather than sending that email- a friendly chat on the phone to see if can be resolved will be softer than an email, you can always send the email later if needed.

You should also consider just paying up and not using them again. Is it worth your time to mess about with emails for the sake of roughly a £100.

[InitialDave]

hyphen said:

Has the other company added a markup for handling goods/payment?

I don't know. If they have, it's not the source of the full increase, and it wasn't agreed to. Here's his email:

guy at third party place said:

Having spoken to [manufacturer] there is no change in price ,[engineer at manufacturer] told me
that is the price ,if you want to ,I will take the clutch back to [manufacturer] so you can sort it
out from there you will not be able to pay direct to [manufacturer].

hyphen said:

Also I would consider giving them a call rather than sending that email- a friendly chat on the phone to see if can be resolved will be softer than an email, you can always send the email later if needed.

That's a good point, though the primary advantage I see in email is that I have a record of what I said. For example, if I'd only had that £90 number verbally, I'd be hung out to dry here.

hyphen said:

You should also consider just paying up and not using them again.

I'd consider paying it if it was indeed a new plate, and I could still have my old one as a spare. Or if I knew I could cost them enough business from other people as well.

hyphen said:

Is it worth your time to mess about with emails for the sake of roughly a £100.

Yes. There's an argument to be made as to it not be worth a full "going legal" approach if it would cost me money, but as long it's just a bit of my time/hassle, I'll keep pushing.

Edited by InitialDave on Wednesday 17th May 23:41

[mikeveal]

1/ You did not talk to an engineer.
2/ Please google the difference between estimate and quote. It will tell you all you need to know.

[pincher]

mikeveal said:

2/ Please google the difference between estimate and quote. It will tell you all you need to know.

And you should google the difference between an estimate and taking the piss. It will tell you all you need to know.

Do you actually think that a jump from a £90 estimate to an actual cost of £190 is reasonable, given that the clutch had been evaluated prior to estimate? You must be off your rocker if you do.

Edited by pincher on Thursday 18th May 12:54

[s3fella]

I'd say that you should contact the people with your clutch now, tell them you have no beef with them, no contract with them either, and they should wither send you the clutch and let you and manufacturer (whom you do have a contract with), duke it out, or otherwise send it back to the manufacturer.
Again, just state that you have no idea why they were sent the clutch, it seems none of their business, but you would appreciate them sending it on to you or return it so you can resolve the matter.

Then you will be clear as to at least WHO is charging the extra cash and it will take the "handling fee/ dealer margin" out of the equation.

If they try to say there is a contract eg a collateral contract with you, I would make it clear any collateral contract was with xyz local tuning co, not them.

Are you or have you been a customer of either of the tuning shops?
To be honest, the whole "no cash facility" is complete horsest, you should have said, fine, when it is done, send me an invoice, I will pay it then send me the clutch. Just like they do with their dealers. although they will get 30 days terms proabbaly.

Who did you originally buy the clutch from btw?

[KevinCamaroSS]

First thing I would query is why the part has been delivered to a different third party than the agreed one?

Second, has the manufacturer not heard of bank transfers?

[InitialDave]

mikeveal said:

1/ You did not talk to an engineer.
2/ Please google the difference between estimate and quote. It will tell you all you need to know.

1) Yes I did. The guy is an engineer, working in the engineering department. He's not a random bod who's been given an inflated title. Being an engineer myself, I very much know the difference, and unless you're certain you know who I was talking to, you might want to reel your neck in.

2) I don't need to Google it, I already know, and if you'd followed your finger along the screen more carefully when reading my previous posts, you'd see I was ok with a reasonable, minor cost increase, I just don't classify "more than double" in that vein.

pincher said:

And you should google the difference between an estimate and taking the piss. It will tell you all you need to know.

Do you actually think that a jump from a £90 estimate to an actual cost of £190 is reasonable, given that the clutch had been evaluated prior to estimate? You must be off your rocker if you do.

Edited by pincher on Thursday 18th May 12:54

Bingo.

s3fella said:

I'd say that you should contact the people with your clutch now, tell them you have no beef with them, no contract with them either, and they should wither send you the clutch and let you and manufacturer (whom you do have a contract with), duke it out, or otherwise send it back to the manufacturer.
Again, just state that you have no idea why they were sent the clutch, it seems none of their business, but you would appreciate them sending it on to you or return it so you can resolve the matter.

Then you will be clear as to at least WHO is charging the extra cash and it will take the "handling fee/ dealer margin" out of the equation.

If they try to say there is a contract eg a collateral contract with you, I would make it clear any collateral contract was with xyz local tuning co, not them.

Are you or have you been a customer of either of the tuning shops?
To be honest, the whole "no cash facility" is complete horsest, you should have said, fine, when it is done, send me an invoice, I will pay it then send me the clutch. Just like they do with their dealers. although they will get 30 days terms proabbaly.

Who did you originally buy the clutch from btw?

I'll reply to this one later if that's OK? On my phone currently, and it's a bit of an arse to separate out a quote to properly address each point.

[elanfan]

If I were in your shoes I'd get the clutch back into my hands.pay the holder under protest by credit card and initiate a chargeback.