Inadvertently creating a right of access
Discussion
I'm putting this in SP&L as it's about the legal aspects of rights of way and rights of access.
We own 2/3rd of a 2 acre field, the remainder is split between two cottages which border it. Currently, there's nothing on there but I'd like to keep some livestock. There's no fence between our field and the land that belongs to either the cottages. A local farmer takes hay from the entire field once a year and the rest of the time it just stands there and is of no use. The two cottages do not want to do anything with it; they want to maintain the satus quo. We need to stock proof our field but doing that would cut the other two fields off from the bridleway and the only access point large enough for farm machinery to mow the fields. The land was sold to the cottages by the previous owners of our house and the deeds contain no access rights for the fields save for services. Each of the cotages have their own separate gardens which border their own field and have access gates. We have asked whether they'd like to sell their fields back to us since neither is doing anything with theirs but they don't want to as they feel that the land adds value to their properties which is a fair point.
We have been asked whether we could put in a large field gate in the fence bordering our field and the land that belongs to the cottages but I'm concerned that a gate would imply a right of access through our field. The current neighbours wouldn't abuse it but both are considerably older than us and nobody can guarantee what sort of a neighbour we would have should either of them move. I can't be bothered with, and don't want to, get legal documents drawn up limiting access through any such gate; it's just too much hassle.
My question is would such a gate give a right of access or imply that the current neighbours or their successors have a right of access through our field? If not now, could it be used years down the line to establish a right through use? In the same way as the current neighbours feel that their fields add value to their properties, we feel that a right of access through ours would reduce the value of ours, therefore we're not very keen on this gate idea. Cottage 2 could possibly extend their current gate from the bridleway but the field of Cottage 1 is completely landlocked, so to speak as below.
Any thoughts?
We own 2/3rd of a 2 acre field, the remainder is split between two cottages which border it. Currently, there's nothing on there but I'd like to keep some livestock. There's no fence between our field and the land that belongs to either the cottages. A local farmer takes hay from the entire field once a year and the rest of the time it just stands there and is of no use. The two cottages do not want to do anything with it; they want to maintain the satus quo. We need to stock proof our field but doing that would cut the other two fields off from the bridleway and the only access point large enough for farm machinery to mow the fields. The land was sold to the cottages by the previous owners of our house and the deeds contain no access rights for the fields save for services. Each of the cotages have their own separate gardens which border their own field and have access gates. We have asked whether they'd like to sell their fields back to us since neither is doing anything with theirs but they don't want to as they feel that the land adds value to their properties which is a fair point.
We have been asked whether we could put in a large field gate in the fence bordering our field and the land that belongs to the cottages but I'm concerned that a gate would imply a right of access through our field. The current neighbours wouldn't abuse it but both are considerably older than us and nobody can guarantee what sort of a neighbour we would have should either of them move. I can't be bothered with, and don't want to, get legal documents drawn up limiting access through any such gate; it's just too much hassle.
My question is would such a gate give a right of access or imply that the current neighbours or their successors have a right of access through our field? If not now, could it be used years down the line to establish a right through use? In the same way as the current neighbours feel that their fields add value to their properties, we feel that a right of access through ours would reduce the value of ours, therefore we're not very keen on this gate idea. Cottage 2 could possibly extend their current gate from the bridleway but the field of Cottage 1 is completely landlocked, so to speak as below.
Any thoughts?
Fence off the field, just give the owners of the cottages plenty of notice.
This will give the owner of cottage 1 time to source a shed and ride-on-mower before the fence is erected.
Their portion of the field is an extension to their garden and as such I'm assuming vehicular access isn't necessarily required?
Depending on how the field was split and sold will depend on what the cottage owners can do with it. Quite often it isn't possible to use the extra land as a garden, sometimes it has to be left as is.
This will give the owner of cottage 1 time to source a shed and ride-on-mower before the fence is erected.
Their portion of the field is an extension to their garden and as such I'm assuming vehicular access isn't necessarily required?
Depending on how the field was split and sold will depend on what the cottage owners can do with it. Quite often it isn't possible to use the extra land as a garden, sometimes it has to be left as is.
The farmer accesses the field through the proper farm gate to the bridleway in our part of the field. You could get a small ride on mower through the front of the cottages to the fields or through the gate from Cottage 2's field to the bridleway but a proper tractor, baler or other farm machinery wouldn't fit. It's been dragging on for months now and I just want to get on with it.
If your field benefits from a right of way - it's possible that they already share that right. If it's straight off the highway then it's less likely (depending on the exact terms of conveyance).
A written agreement signed by both parties, agreeing that you will allow them to access via a gate from time to time, but that this is permissive, and revocable at any time may work.
Think it needs a solicitor on this one to be honest.
This link may help - http://www.boundary-problems.co.uk/boundary-proble...
A written agreement signed by both parties, agreeing that you will allow them to access via a gate from time to time, but that this is permissive, and revocable at any time may work.
Think it needs a solicitor on this one to be honest.
This link may help - http://www.boundary-problems.co.uk/boundary-proble...
In a nutshell, yes - the gate could help the neighbours successfully argue things like prescriptive rights (20 years' use generally needed). So tread carefully.
It may be that rights were implied at the time the cottages' fields were transferred to them (this will depend on the facts and the terms of the transfers) so fencing off your field does have potential to cause you issues.
I agree with surveyor - if you want an answer to this I think you prob need to see a solicitor.
It may be that rights were implied at the time the cottages' fields were transferred to them (this will depend on the facts and the terms of the transfers) so fencing off your field does have potential to cause you issues.
I agree with surveyor - if you want an answer to this I think you prob need to see a solicitor.
We had a similar issue - ours was agricultural vs. equestrian rights of way, but I can only recommend a decent land solicitor. The £600 or so we spent to get a watertight opinion saved us a fortune and shut down the horse-people who were massively taking the piss.
You need to make sure they have no current rights before doing anything.
PM me if you want a name.
You need to make sure they have no current rights before doing anything.
PM me if you want a name.
Thanks chaps. I think we will say no to a gate then.
To clarify further and answer some of the questions, the field doesn't benefit from any rights of way, access is straight from the highway and one of the small fields borders the same anyway. All I want to do is keep some sheep and they would agree to having the sheep on their bit as well if we pay for a stock proof fence plus 2 separate gates about 10 feet from the boundary of their gardens AND have a solicitor draw up a legally binding agreement to give them access rights from our field, with us footing all the bills (fence, 2 gates and all legal costs). We have already paid for a new fence all along the border with the village playground as the fence was falling down (mainly on their section) but they were away for a 3 month holiday. The deeds specify that they are responsible for erecting and maintaining a stock proof fence at the border so we shouldn't even need to pay for the fence between the fields. The only access rights in the deeds are for essential services (gas, electricity and water) which are mutual and mirrored; and they're not allowed to do anything which causes an inconvenience to the owners of our field. Interestingly, that clause about not causing an inconvenience doesn't exist in our deeds.
I can't be bothered to argue about them having to pay for the fence in the first place so I will pay for the fence but I'm not paying several hundred pounds extra for a gate and solicitors, then inadvertently create a legal right of way for their benefit where one doesn't exist. It would've been much easier for them to allow a few sheep to graze the whole field with an informal agreement but they won't agree to that.
To clarify further and answer some of the questions, the field doesn't benefit from any rights of way, access is straight from the highway and one of the small fields borders the same anyway. All I want to do is keep some sheep and they would agree to having the sheep on their bit as well if we pay for a stock proof fence plus 2 separate gates about 10 feet from the boundary of their gardens AND have a solicitor draw up a legally binding agreement to give them access rights from our field, with us footing all the bills (fence, 2 gates and all legal costs). We have already paid for a new fence all along the border with the village playground as the fence was falling down (mainly on their section) but they were away for a 3 month holiday. The deeds specify that they are responsible for erecting and maintaining a stock proof fence at the border so we shouldn't even need to pay for the fence between the fields. The only access rights in the deeds are for essential services (gas, electricity and water) which are mutual and mirrored; and they're not allowed to do anything which causes an inconvenience to the owners of our field. Interestingly, that clause about not causing an inconvenience doesn't exist in our deeds.
I can't be bothered to argue about them having to pay for the fence in the first place so I will pay for the fence but I'm not paying several hundred pounds extra for a gate and solicitors, then inadvertently create a legal right of way for their benefit where one doesn't exist. It would've been much easier for them to allow a few sheep to graze the whole field with an informal agreement but they won't agree to that.
mikeveal said:
Why can't cottage two install a gate onto the bridleway?
If they want access, that's what they should do. Cottage one can access his land across cottage two's field.
Job jobbed.
Exactly what I thought when I saw the picture - Fence off your field and put your livestock on it, If they want access, that's what they should do. Cottage one can access his land across cottage two's field.
Job jobbed.
They can work out how to access their fields themselves (directly off the bridleway or round the house)
Bob
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