NIP: 23 in 30 zone down to 20 for "surface dressing"
Discussion
A colleague is telling me he has received a NIP for doing 23 in a 20, when the speed limit was reduced because of "surface dressing"
They do surface dressing a lot in Bradford as it is cheap and makes it look as if the road has been resurfaced properly.
Anyway, thats beside the point.
I am absolutely amazed that this guy (no, it wasn't me) has received a Notice of Intended Prosecution
First I said that I didnt think speedometers were calibrated below 30kph, so you couldnt get " done" in a 20 zone. I guess they have got around that one.
How can it be proved that the road was adequately signed at 20, when it was temporary.
Are camera vans capable of such accuracy.
Has anyone else been done in such circumstances ?
He is inclined to take the hit, but this 20 stuff is just getting ridiculous and I would be tempted to fight it
They do surface dressing a lot in Bradford as it is cheap and makes it look as if the road has been resurfaced properly.
Anyway, thats beside the point.
I am absolutely amazed that this guy (no, it wasn't me) has received a Notice of Intended Prosecution
First I said that I didnt think speedometers were calibrated below 30kph, so you couldnt get " done" in a 20 zone. I guess they have got around that one.
How can it be proved that the road was adequately signed at 20, when it was temporary.
Are camera vans capable of such accuracy.
Has anyone else been done in such circumstances ?
He is inclined to take the hit, but this 20 stuff is just getting ridiculous and I would be tempted to fight it
Mike335i said:
Most of the surface dressing round here is accompanied by both 10 in a red circle and max speed 20 signs (advisory). Does that mean that there is no legally enforceable limit?
Whatever the normal speed limit is will be the enforceable figure, as it's unlikely there will be a TRO in place for the roadworks to reduce the speed limit officially As for this colleague who's been done, then a simple photo with name and address redacted will prove it's real. Without this, I agree with the other poster that's is a made up story.
Sebring440 said:
sjw said:
I didnt think speedometers were calibrated below 30kph
What?Presumably you mean "mph", but why ever would you think speedometers are not "calibrated" below whatever speed you are thinking of?
https://www.unece.org/fileadmin/DAM/trans/main/wp2...
As far as I know this UN/ECE regulation is still in force in some shape or form.
That is part of the reason why 20mph zones need to be 'self enforcing' by road layout (according to ACPO) you may notice those that are not self-enforcing usually have the 20 encircled in black, i.e. advisory.
Pica-Pica said:
Sebring440 said:
sjw said:
I didnt think speedometers were calibrated below 30kph
What?Presumably you mean "mph", but why ever would you think speedometers are not "calibrated" below whatever speed you are thinking of?
https://www.unece.org/fileadmin/DAM/trans/main/wp2...
As far as I know this UN/ECE regulation is still in force in some shape or form.
That is part of the reason why 20mph zones need to be 'self enforcing' by road layout (according to ACPO) you may notice those that are not self-enforcing usually have the 20 encircled in black, i.e. advisory.
kiethton said:
Pica-Pica said:
Sebring440 said:
sjw said:
I didnt think speedometers were calibrated below 30kph
What?Presumably you mean "mph", but why ever would you think speedometers are not "calibrated" below whatever speed you are thinking of?
https://www.unece.org/fileadmin/DAM/trans/main/wp2...
As far as I know this UN/ECE regulation is still in force in some shape or form.
That is part of the reason why 20mph zones need to be 'self enforcing' by road layout (according to ACPO) you may notice those that are not self-enforcing usually have the 20 encircled in black, i.e. advisory.
Jeremy Vine was done by a hand-held gun at 16mph for cycling in a 5mph pedestrian/cycling path in Hyde Park (good, you might say, I could not possibly comment), I think he got a verbal 'ticking off'.
That is my understanding, all Law stands as just words until it is tested in court (or accepted by the accused, in the case of a uncontested charge).
Pica-Pica said:
Well if you are doing 25 or above, your speedo should be accurate (within the tolerance of a reading minus nil plus 10% plus 4kph or similar). I think probably that driving at, say 20 mph when the speed limit is say 10 mph would be used not to bring a speeding charge, but to support a charge of driving without due care and attention. 10mph signs can be found in supermarkets etc, and although not a highway it is 'in a public place'.
Jeremy Vine was done by a hand-held gun at 16mph for cycling in a 5mph pedestrian/cycling path in Hyde Park (good, you might say, I could not possibly comment), I think he got a verbal 'ticking off'.
That is my understanding, all Law stands as just words until it is tested in court (or accepted by the accused, in the case of a uncontested charge).
Pedal cycles are another odd thing as most speed limits don't apply to them as they are not "mechanically propelled vehicles". The Royal Parks, of which Hyde Park is one, used to be an exception as their speed limits are set by a different law, but this has now been changed (in 2010) to bring it in line with the law on other roads.Jeremy Vine was done by a hand-held gun at 16mph for cycling in a 5mph pedestrian/cycling path in Hyde Park (good, you might say, I could not possibly comment), I think he got a verbal 'ticking off'.
That is my understanding, all Law stands as just words until it is tested in court (or accepted by the accused, in the case of a uncontested charge).
On the other hand, a cyclist can still be charged with "wanton or furious cycling" if they are considered to be riding too fast for the conditions- even if they are below the speed limit!
I've not heard of a TRO being written for a speed limit on that type of works, probably not worth the hassle as surface dressing is meant to be quick vs. a long stretch of speed limit for a major scheme where lowering the speed limit and enforcing it is beneficial.
However, if they have written one and published it etc. then it could be enforceable. Look for a copy of the traffic order for the works, it would have been published locally.
However, if they have written one and published it etc. then it could be enforceable. Look for a copy of the traffic order for the works, it would have been published locally.
AlexiusG55 said:
On the other hand, a cyclist can still be charged with "wanton or furious cycling" if they are considered to be riding too fast for the conditions- even if they are below the speed limit!
For the Wanton charge to be brought, it would need to involve an accident with a pedestrian and they would need to be injuredsjw said:
A colleague is telling me he has received a NIP for doing 23 in a 20, when the speed limit was reduced because of "surface dressing"
They do surface dressing a lot in Bradford as it is cheap and makes it look as if the road has been resurfaced properly.
Anyway, thats beside the point.
I am absolutely amazed that this guy (no, it wasn't me) has received a Notice of Intended Prosecution
First I said that I didnt think speedometers were calibrated below 30kph, so you couldnt get " done" in a 20 zone. I guess they have got around that one.
How can it be proved that the road was adequately signed at 20, when it was temporary.
Are camera vans capable of such accuracy.
Has anyone else been done in such circumstances ?
He is inclined to take the hit, but this 20 stuff is just getting ridiculous and I would be tempted to fight it
A NIP doesn't necessarly have teh speed on it and doesn't need to have.They do surface dressing a lot in Bradford as it is cheap and makes it look as if the road has been resurfaced properly.
Anyway, thats beside the point.
I am absolutely amazed that this guy (no, it wasn't me) has received a Notice of Intended Prosecution
First I said that I didnt think speedometers were calibrated below 30kph, so you couldnt get " done" in a 20 zone. I guess they have got around that one.
How can it be proved that the road was adequately signed at 20, when it was temporary.
Are camera vans capable of such accuracy.
Has anyone else been done in such circumstances ?
He is inclined to take the hit, but this 20 stuff is just getting ridiculous and I would be tempted to fight it
The equipment used by West Yorkshire has a laser than updates constantly with the speed and distance so he may have a picture from the film after he was measured at a higher speed. The prosecution won't be at 23mph. That said it can be.
How can it be proved that the road was adequately signed at 20, when it was temporary. With logs used by the traffic management company probably,
Are camera vans capable of such accuracy. They are.
Has anyone else been done in such circumstances ? Most probably.
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