Child Protection Advice
Discussion
Possibly being a bit brave posting this here, but I'm running out of places to turn for advice. I apologise for the long post, but it's been a long procedure and a lot of the detail is relevant I think. I'll keep it as brief as I can though.
So.....
December 2008 my oldest son was born by emergency section. His identical twin died through TTTS and left him severely brain damaged. He's got very limited use of his limbs, his head isn't growing (microcephaly), he's non verbal and has a raft of other issues including epilepsy and cyclical vomiting syndrome. We've always struggled with his weight and follow a feeding regime given by his dietitian through a feeding tube.
Over the years we've sought much advice with regards to him not being able to gain weight well and his persistent vomiting issues. We've followed everything we've been asked to do, we've given him more than he's been asked and even got the dietitian to provide a supplementary powder to assist in weight gain at our request.
Back in April we were advised of a respite service that several of his school friends go to, so we contacted them. They said you had to be referred by social services. We'd been in contact with them a few times over the years and discharged as 'nothing we can do for you' so the mother contacted them to make a referral. She was immediately told he wasn't suitable by the social worker. She contacted the service who then said he was perfect for it and that it was not the first time this problem had occurred with this particular social worker and that they would call him and sort it.
Some time later she gets a call back from the social worker, can she attend a meeting at school about Mason. She agrees, turns up and it turns out to be a 'child in need' meeting. No warning at all. They are concerned over his weight gain and the entirely non-medical panel decides that clearly we are doing something wrong, that is nothing medical and that this is neglect. They start ripping into her and she walks out. She's not good with social settings like that.
The next day we receive a visit and they present us with an 'agreement of expectation' and tell us to sign it, but that they will be initiating child protection anyway. The agreement itself is unsignable - it said that if we met their list of expectations they would still seek legal action against us. The agreement is also effectively a confession of neglect coupled with a list of frankly ridiculous non-negotiable demands.
They also had concerns about mothers relationship with him - it was a bit strained for a while but at the time I was at home every day so at no point was he left on his own. She seeked help and that relationship has improved hugely.
Today we receive a letter inviting us to a child protection meeting - and our other son, who at no point has been named in any prior meeting or communication - is named on it as well.
My thoughts:
My oldest son has a variety of complex conditions and a lot of medication. Cyclical vomiting syndrome in itself can cause severe weight loss and we are always fighting that. Levetiracetam seems to have reports of weight loss too. We've done everything the dietitian has asked and more - increasing the quantities for example when she doesn't respond to emails/calls. When she prescribed that supplement she didn't include any dosage and I chased her for weeks to get it! We've asked multiple doctors and consultants about his weight issues and what we can do but little has been forthcoming. Social services claim that his lack of weight gain is neglect on our part, I just cannot see what else we could have done. I've asked for any evidence of our neglect because if I have done something wrong then I'm going to feel pretty crappy and want to fix it :/
The relationship thing has been blown out of all proportion and twisted.
I've sent an email to our social worker outlining my thoughts and complaints about the process and how things have been handled, and also another querying why my youngest is also now named but at this time I've yet to get a response.
Does anyone have any advice for this child protection meeting? I've spoken with a solicitor and they recommend not to involve them at this stage as there is nothing they can do and that they wouldn't be allowed to speak.
Have I made the situation worse by not signing the agreement (but stating in writing that I will work with them to address their concerns) or by sending the email outlining my issues with what has happened so far?
Basically this is seriously stressing me out and the thought of losing my boys is killing me
So.....
December 2008 my oldest son was born by emergency section. His identical twin died through TTTS and left him severely brain damaged. He's got very limited use of his limbs, his head isn't growing (microcephaly), he's non verbal and has a raft of other issues including epilepsy and cyclical vomiting syndrome. We've always struggled with his weight and follow a feeding regime given by his dietitian through a feeding tube.
Over the years we've sought much advice with regards to him not being able to gain weight well and his persistent vomiting issues. We've followed everything we've been asked to do, we've given him more than he's been asked and even got the dietitian to provide a supplementary powder to assist in weight gain at our request.
Back in April we were advised of a respite service that several of his school friends go to, so we contacted them. They said you had to be referred by social services. We'd been in contact with them a few times over the years and discharged as 'nothing we can do for you' so the mother contacted them to make a referral. She was immediately told he wasn't suitable by the social worker. She contacted the service who then said he was perfect for it and that it was not the first time this problem had occurred with this particular social worker and that they would call him and sort it.
Some time later she gets a call back from the social worker, can she attend a meeting at school about Mason. She agrees, turns up and it turns out to be a 'child in need' meeting. No warning at all. They are concerned over his weight gain and the entirely non-medical panel decides that clearly we are doing something wrong, that is nothing medical and that this is neglect. They start ripping into her and she walks out. She's not good with social settings like that.
The next day we receive a visit and they present us with an 'agreement of expectation' and tell us to sign it, but that they will be initiating child protection anyway. The agreement itself is unsignable - it said that if we met their list of expectations they would still seek legal action against us. The agreement is also effectively a confession of neglect coupled with a list of frankly ridiculous non-negotiable demands.
They also had concerns about mothers relationship with him - it was a bit strained for a while but at the time I was at home every day so at no point was he left on his own. She seeked help and that relationship has improved hugely.
Today we receive a letter inviting us to a child protection meeting - and our other son, who at no point has been named in any prior meeting or communication - is named on it as well.
My thoughts:
My oldest son has a variety of complex conditions and a lot of medication. Cyclical vomiting syndrome in itself can cause severe weight loss and we are always fighting that. Levetiracetam seems to have reports of weight loss too. We've done everything the dietitian has asked and more - increasing the quantities for example when she doesn't respond to emails/calls. When she prescribed that supplement she didn't include any dosage and I chased her for weeks to get it! We've asked multiple doctors and consultants about his weight issues and what we can do but little has been forthcoming. Social services claim that his lack of weight gain is neglect on our part, I just cannot see what else we could have done. I've asked for any evidence of our neglect because if I have done something wrong then I'm going to feel pretty crappy and want to fix it :/
The relationship thing has been blown out of all proportion and twisted.
I've sent an email to our social worker outlining my thoughts and complaints about the process and how things have been handled, and also another querying why my youngest is also now named but at this time I've yet to get a response.
Does anyone have any advice for this child protection meeting? I've spoken with a solicitor and they recommend not to involve them at this stage as there is nothing they can do and that they wouldn't be allowed to speak.
Have I made the situation worse by not signing the agreement (but stating in writing that I will work with them to address their concerns) or by sending the email outlining my issues with what has happened so far?
Basically this is seriously stressing me out and the thought of losing my boys is killing me
Get tooled up with experts
1 or 2 who are experts in this field
Get them to write a short report (otherwise they will charge loads)
Keep your powder dry and the report under wraps and carry on with your life.
If / When it goes to court introduce the experts report(s)
If you can find out what experts the local authority uses then better still (get to them first)
Experts are mercenaries they will work for anyone for a price.
This is all about top trumps.
eg
Her Maj and DofE batting for your side will make them scared.
Just saw that you are in Bucks
Google Effie Stillwell
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-he...
The judges order is online somewhere so you can search for the name of the child experts that were used in this case.
John
1 or 2 who are experts in this field
Get them to write a short report (otherwise they will charge loads)
Keep your powder dry and the report under wraps and carry on with your life.
If / When it goes to court introduce the experts report(s)
If you can find out what experts the local authority uses then better still (get to them first)
Experts are mercenaries they will work for anyone for a price.
This is all about top trumps.
eg
Her Maj and DofE batting for your side will make them scared.
Just saw that you are in Bucks
Google Effie Stillwell
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-he...
The judges order is online somewhere so you can search for the name of the child experts that were used in this case.
John
Edited by Greenmantle on Thursday 27th July 14:56
Edited by Greenmantle on Thursday 27th July 14:57
I can give no advice about the specifics of this case. However, I have been involved in such matters (on their 'side') and there's one thing I would advise anyone who deals with the SS where there is a challenge like yours.
Be very careful what you write to them. If at all possible don't until is has been cleared by a solicitor. Better still, let the brief deal with them entirely. The SS can place great emphasis on a phrase or even word, and perceived attitude might be focused on.
Any phone call - don't you make them - should be recorded and transcribed. Include day, date, time, telephone number and the name the person making the call gave. A way of ending a conversation is that you are under advice from your solicitor to say nothing as this will be in the best interests of your child.
In general I've found the SS to be very open and helpful in such situations, but if they say one thing and do another, it is often for a reason. Their advisers can be, I'm not sure of the word, but partial springs to mind.
Be very careful what you write to them. If at all possible don't until is has been cleared by a solicitor. Better still, let the brief deal with them entirely. The SS can place great emphasis on a phrase or even word, and perceived attitude might be focused on.
Any phone call - don't you make them - should be recorded and transcribed. Include day, date, time, telephone number and the name the person making the call gave. A way of ending a conversation is that you are under advice from your solicitor to say nothing as this will be in the best interests of your child.
In general I've found the SS to be very open and helpful in such situations, but if they say one thing and do another, it is often for a reason. Their advisers can be, I'm not sure of the word, but partial springs to mind.
Christ, that sounds like an awful situation!
I take it you meant that the initial meeting was about a LACK of weight gain that they were concerned about?
My wife works in children's services so I will get her take on it later on, and reply with hopefully some useful information for you.
I take it you meant that the initial meeting was about a LACK of weight gain that they were concerned about?
My wife works in children's services so I will get her take on it later on, and reply with hopefully some useful information for you.
Derek Smith said:
I can give no advice about the specifics of this case. However, I have been involved in such matters (on their 'side') and there's one thing I would advise anyone who deals with the SS where there is a challenge like yours.
Be very careful what you write to them. If at all possible don't until is has been cleared by a solicitor. Better still, let the brief deal with them entirely. The SS can place great emphasis on a phrase or even word, and perceived attitude might be focused on.
Any phone call - don't you make them - should be recorded and transcribed. Include day, date, time, telephone number and the name the person making the call gave. A way of ending a conversation is that you are under advice from your solicitor to say nothing as this will be in the best interests of your child.
In general I've found the SS to be very open and helpful in such situations, but if they say one thing and do another, it is often for a reason. Their advisers can be, I'm not sure of the word, but partial springs to mind.
I cant reiterate this enough, my sister had problems with SS and made up stuff. My parent ended up spending £1000s on solicitors to get them to go away... The trouble didn't end but now its moved on to being directed directly at my sis not her kids...Be very careful what you write to them. If at all possible don't until is has been cleared by a solicitor. Better still, let the brief deal with them entirely. The SS can place great emphasis on a phrase or even word, and perceived attitude might be focused on.
Any phone call - don't you make them - should be recorded and transcribed. Include day, date, time, telephone number and the name the person making the call gave. A way of ending a conversation is that you are under advice from your solicitor to say nothing as this will be in the best interests of your child.
In general I've found the SS to be very open and helpful in such situations, but if they say one thing and do another, it is often for a reason. Their advisers can be, I'm not sure of the word, but partial springs to mind.
My dad was checking the id and writing down everyone that was entering the leaving the house and being a general note taker, being an ex-copper he knew the best way of administrating the situation without getting peoples backs up and appearing defensive.
I obviously don't want to go into too much detail, but good luck.
Probably not good advice to follow, but id be trying to familiarise myself with what powers they have and what they cant do and the complaints procedure and of course any action you can take against the staff personally, nothing stops someone in their tracks like a letter through their front door from your solicitor directly to them and not the agency they work for. Also worth taking note of any member of the 'team' that get particularly emotional and involve the police if you feel threatened.
SBDJ said:
Thanks, I've probably messed up already then 
I've got that sinking feeling and now they are probing around our other child with someone being asked to come out and assess him too.
Feeling like a properly crap parent right now.
It's unlikely that you've done anything irreparable by your initial reply. It was just the first salvo, getting range so to speak. I've got that sinking feeling and now they are probing around our other child with someone being asked to come out and assess him too.
Feeling like a properly crap parent right now.
With regards your second sentence, get a brief for your response to their request to assess your second child. However, from my limited experience, if there's a care enquiry with one child, they will look to the welfare of any siblings. So this is probably 'normal' for them. But only probably.
Regarding the third; you are not a crap parent. At least you are no worse than the majority*. Everyone makes mistakes. In fact there's some saying from out east that hell is a place that shows you how much better a parent you could have been. The place will be packed. As you get older, your mistakes suddenly seem to spring to mind for no reason. However, if you go into any situation with the SS with the belief that you've failed then you are giving them the advantage straight away.
Remember, or better still catalogue, all you've done for the child. How he's developed in your care. How much love and attention to give him, and yet you still give your other child as much care as he needs and probably a bit more.
- Given the problems with your child, and the emotional pressure the birth alone, let alone living with the situation, have caused you, you are probably better than most.
Thanks everyone. SS have confirmed that they have no concerns about the second child and that it's just routine.
I wish the panel could see what we have been through over the last 8 years - the fights to get help, to get diagnosis of various conditions, the countless time spent by the side of his bed at home and in hospital. I consider myself many things, I even blame myself a bit for the death of his brother and his subsequent issues but I've never considered myself neglectful.
I wish the panel could see what we have been through over the last 8 years - the fights to get help, to get diagnosis of various conditions, the countless time spent by the side of his bed at home and in hospital. I consider myself many things, I even blame myself a bit for the death of his brother and his subsequent issues but I've never considered myself neglectful.
I am a qualified and registered social worker and I would be quite happy to give you some advice.
What you say in your opening post does not match up with the procedures they should be following, so there are either gaps in what you have reported or they've gone well outside their remit. I'm not saying you are not telling the truth just there are quite big gaps.
From what you have reported they have undertaken an assessment under S17 (Children Act 1989) which requires consent, so if they have called a meeting or discussed concerns with the school without consent that is very naughty. It would appear, and I am guessing a bit here, that they have taken your failure to agree/sign the agreement/safety plan as really worrying and escalated their concerns to S47 (Children Act 1989) the outcome of that being they feel that your child is suffering or likely to suffer neglect.
They have convened and an Initial Child Protection Conference (ICPC) and are writing a report which will look at the three domains of the assessment triangle. This report should be shared with you well in advance of the meeting (48hours) and you should have the opportunity to respond formally to all the point before the meeting.
The conference is chaired by and Independent Reviewing Officer (employed by the local authority) and social care and all other agencies present (School, Health, The Police) will be asked to vote with the Chair having the casting vote. They will be asked if you child is at significant risk of harm and if they think so under what category.
The above is quite brief but I can't offer you any more advice without having further information but it wouldn't be wise to put anything identifiable online. If you want to PM I will try and help further.
What you say in your opening post does not match up with the procedures they should be following, so there are either gaps in what you have reported or they've gone well outside their remit. I'm not saying you are not telling the truth just there are quite big gaps.
From what you have reported they have undertaken an assessment under S17 (Children Act 1989) which requires consent, so if they have called a meeting or discussed concerns with the school without consent that is very naughty. It would appear, and I am guessing a bit here, that they have taken your failure to agree/sign the agreement/safety plan as really worrying and escalated their concerns to S47 (Children Act 1989) the outcome of that being they feel that your child is suffering or likely to suffer neglect.
They have convened and an Initial Child Protection Conference (ICPC) and are writing a report which will look at the three domains of the assessment triangle. This report should be shared with you well in advance of the meeting (48hours) and you should have the opportunity to respond formally to all the point before the meeting.
The conference is chaired by and Independent Reviewing Officer (employed by the local authority) and social care and all other agencies present (School, Health, The Police) will be asked to vote with the Chair having the casting vote. They will be asked if you child is at significant risk of harm and if they think so under what category.
The above is quite brief but I can't offer you any more advice without having further information but it wouldn't be wise to put anything identifiable online. If you want to PM I will try and help further.
I did try and keep it brief, but no consent was requested or given - the first we were aware of anything was the CIN meeting that we were told was just a meeting to have a chat about our son.
The agreement was presented the day after that CIN meeting and they told us they had already requested the child protection meeting before even giving us the agreement and I am sure they told us they had already undertaken a section 47.
Given the timescales involved I can't see me getting a report 48 hours ahead of the meeting, but I could be wrong.
The agreement was presented the day after that CIN meeting and they told us they had already requested the child protection meeting before even giving us the agreement and I am sure they told us they had already undertaken a section 47.
Given the timescales involved I can't see me getting a report 48 hours ahead of the meeting, but I could be wrong.
Edited by SBDJ on Friday 28th July 01:36
Presume there's a history of stuff in his medical records relating to his growth/weight gain? You want as much of that as you can ready to take into the meeting, along with current doctor's reports/explanation as to the reasons.
My son is exceptionally small for his age, and has minor development issues - he reaches all the milestones, but about a year after it's normally expected. He sees a paediatrician who assess his growth progress every 6 or 12 months. So your son must be having at least a similar amount of contact with medical professionals, probably quite a bit more by the sound of it? Meet with them urgently and explain SS accusations, I'm sure they'll be helpful, hopefully will write a brief summary of how his conditions affect his growth, and that they have no concerns that it's down to neglect.
My son is exceptionally small for his age, and has minor development issues - he reaches all the milestones, but about a year after it's normally expected. He sees a paediatrician who assess his growth progress every 6 or 12 months. So your son must be having at least a similar amount of contact with medical professionals, probably quite a bit more by the sound of it? Meet with them urgently and explain SS accusations, I'm sure they'll be helpful, hopefully will write a brief summary of how his conditions affect his growth, and that they have no concerns that it's down to neglect.
SBDJ said:
Feeling like a properly crap parent right now.
Purely for the fact that you are asking for advice, clearly you care for and about your children greatly is enough that from my perspective you are far from a crap parent. I'm afraid I can't give you legal advice or help but my partner works with children with brain injuries and sees a lot of situations. Some of those parents are genuinely not good parents, some of which have been the cause of their childs problems.
I find it really saddening to hear things like you've posted OP, taking things to such levels with two genuine parents when there are others out there neglecting children and it doesn't get detected.
All the best mate.
SBDJ said:
Feeling like a properly crap parent right now.
Don't as already said you are not because you quite clearly care.I've had dealings with Social workers, one made up lies and I almost lost my kids. It was only when it went to the Court Team that the social worker assigned to us was from another rather outspoken Country and having actually spent time to get to know me and my kids realised what was contained in our files was lies.
After a lot of stress and me nearly losing my job because I was called to so many meetings I ran out of annual leave I finally got my kids out of the system but I am wary of anything social services related these days. I used to read stories in the news where people said their kids had been removed for no good reason thinking that there were more than one side to the story, but now I'm not so judgemental about parents
Good luck OP.
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