Serving a section 21 notice at the start of an AST?

[fergus]

What is the collective wisdom on serving a S21 notice at the commencement of an AST (technically after the AST has been signed)?

Does this look aggressive?

[spikyone]

fergus said:

What is the collective wisdom on serving a S21 notice at the commencement of an AST (technically after the AST has been signed)?

Does this look aggressive?

Yes. I learned from being on the wrong end of this, after being misled by a letting agent about what it meant (of course, I should have researched it myself but foolishly trusted the agent's explanation) - luckily they had ballsed up and served it before the AST began, but I would simply have found somewhere else if I'd properly understood the implications.

Assuming you're a landlord - what possible reason would you have for doing it? You can serve it two months before the fixed term ends with exactly the same effect, if necessary. Ultimately it is in both your interests and your tenants' interest to keep them in the property for as long as possible rather than look at ways of kicking them out before the tenancy has even begun.
And if you're viewing a BTL property as a short term prospect, then please consider that it will be the tenants' home and that moving is both expensive and disruptive for them. Too many landlords just see their tenants as their source of income.
I had five or six landlords decide to sell up from under me, and in one case kick me out after 8 months so that they could move their family into the property. As a result of that I wouldn't wish renting on anyone...

[Wings]

Any Section 21 Notice served within 4 months of the starting date of an Assured Shorthold Tenancy Agreement would be Invalid.

[fergus]

Wings said:

Any Section 21 Notice served within 4 months of the starting date of an Assured Shorthold Tenancy Agreement would be Invalid.

On what basis? Is there any distinction between a 21(1) and 21(4) notice in respect of your comment?

[spikyone]

fergus said:

Wings said:

Any Section 21 Notice served within 4 months of the starting date of an Assured Shorthold Tenancy Agreement would be Invalid.

On what basis? Is there any distinction between a 21(1) and 21(4) notice in respect of your comment?

That appears to be correct, since some time in 2015. Source
They are also now useless in the longer term since they have an expiration in terms of when they could be used in court proceedings, although my understanding was that previously if landlords permitted the tenant to stay beyond the date on the S21 (such as the old way of serving start of tenancy S21 "just in case" and then not following through on it), it was effectively null and void anyway.

Seems that times have changed since I last signed a tenancy agreement, and that can only be a good thing. I stand by my previous comment that you should probably consider why you wanted to serve a S21 at the start of a tenancy in the first place.

[Wings]

spikyone said:

That appears to be correct, since some time in 2015. Source
They are also now useless in the longer term since they have an expiration in terms of when they could be used in court proceedings, although my understanding was that previously if landlords permitted the tenant to stay beyond the date on the S21 (such as the old way of serving start of tenancy S21 "just in case" and then not following through on it), it was effectively null and void anyway.

Seems that times have changed since I last signed a tenancy agreement, and that can only be a good thing. I stand by my previous comment that you should probably consider why you wanted to serve a S21 at the start of a tenancy in the first place.

^^^^agree.

There is now a new 6A section 21 Notice, the same following the Deregulation Act 2015, and must be used for all ASTs created, started after 1st October 2015, except that is periodic tenancies that came into being after the mentioned date. Although this same 6A Notice can be used for ALL ASTs.

The above Act also now prevents landlords/agents from retaliatory or revenge evictions via the serving of a Section 21 Notice.
Landlords are now prevented from retaliatory or revenge evictions.

Also worth mentioning (time on my hands, raining outside) apart from incorrect dates on the Notice, proof of service, the above Act also invalidates where the tenant has not received an EPC, Gas Safety Certificate, How to Rent Guide, landlord, agent failed to protect a tenant’s Deposit and provided the tenant with the prescribed information within 30 days of the start of the tenancy.

Finally, a Section 21 will be deemed to be invalid, where the landlord, agent has failed to obtain a license for a House in Multiple Occupation, or a property that should have had one.

[surveyor_101]

Wings said:

Any Section 21 Notice served within 4 months of the starting date of an Assured Shorthold Tenancy Agreement would be Invalid.

agreed however I have seen one case where the landlord can serve 2 months notice at any time Even in an AST.

It was the Diocese of Bath & Wells and the were allowed to as (basically the church can do as they please) they can designate a property for use by a minster of religion and ask for it back at 2 months notice AT ANYTIME.

But that is just and interesting aside.

You would look a bit aggressive silly, just do it in the 4 month!

[superlightr]

surveyor_101 said:

Wings said:

Any Section 21 Notice served within 4 months of the starting date of an Assured Shorthold Tenancy Agreement would be Invalid.

agreed however I have seen one case where the landlord can serve 2 months notice at any time Even in an AST.

It was the Diocese of Bath & Wells and the were allowed to as (basically the church can do as they please) they can designate a property for use by a minster of religion and ask for it back at 2 months notice AT ANYTIME.

But that is just and interesting aside.

You would look a bit aggressive silly, just do it in the 4 month!

Wings is exactly correct.

If the OP didn't know this then they should not be doing the letting of their own property. Get an agent or understand the legislation as you will get burnt otherwise.

Yes from memory -in the Housing Act properties owned by ministers/churches are excluded from being an AST.

[surveyor_101]

superlightr said:

Wings is exactly correct.

If the OP didn't know this then they should not be doing the letting of their own property. Get an agent or understand the legislation as you will get burnt otherwise.

Yes from memory -in the Housing Act properties owned by ministers/churches are excluded from being an AST.

The tenancy was AST and the tenant still had to abide by the 6 months but the church didn't

[Wings]

surveyor_101 said:

The tenancy was AST and the tenant still had to abide by the 6 months but the church didn't

h

It is usual for a religious body to serve a Section 8 Notice under ground 5 , that possession of the property is now required by a member of their church ie a Minister of Religion.

Courts power are only restricted on the time (4 months after start of tenancy) a Section 21 Notice can be served, and not on when Section 8 Notice was served, which for a religious body under ground 5 can be served any time.