Travel Insurance- Are Trackdays 'motorsport'?

[StreetDragster]

Hi All,

Off to iberia this year to do some trackdays, making a bit of a holiday out of it so i'm trying to sort some travel insurance out, primarily for medial cover.

I notice alot of these policys have one liners excluding motorsport, with no further detail.

In my mind based on what i think i've seen as terms and conditions in breakdown cover and car insurance products, trackdays are non competitive events and are therefore not motorsport.

Is this correct?

Thanks

Matt

Edited by StreetDragster on Wednesday 9th August 11:05

[TwigtheWonderkid]

The intention of the exclusion is to cover normal driving (hiring a car) but to exclude any kind of competitive / racing events. A trackday is clearly not something they would be expecting to cover, you are competing against the clock if nothing else. The risk of injury is higher than normal driving.

[Tablecloth]

If your holiday involves a specific activity then you need to declare that to your insurer. For instance if you go skiing you need to declare that.

If you go on holiday and go paragliding once then there is no need to declare it. If however you are going on a paragliding holiday then you will be expected to declare that.

As you are going on a holiday that includes a specific activity that you intend to undertake on more than one occasion and perhaps every day I am absolutely certain that insurers will want to have that declared.

You need to consider whether your interpretation of your activity is going to be more important than the insurer's interpretation. I will leave you to your own guess on who's opinion will count when you are strapped to a stretcher at the airport and the hospital and airline staff put their hands out for payment.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

Tablecloth said:

If you go on holiday and go paragliding once then there is no need to declare it.

There is if the policy excludes paragliding, and you want to be covered for the one day you're doing it.

[cbmotorsport]

Try some of the 'Adventure Insurance' companies like Dogtag.com

[DocJock]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

The intention of the exclusion is to cover normal driving (hiring a car) but to exclude any kind of competitive / racing events. A trackday is clearly not something they would be expecting to cover, you are competing against the clock if nothing else. The risk of injury is higher than normal driving.

Simply not true. Timing is forbidden on trackdays and most attendees are not bothered about laptimes calculated from videos.

There has already been a multipage thread debating whether or not trackdays fall under the definition of 'motorsport' which was split pretty evenly. If insurers want to exclude trackday risk, why do they not simply include the word 'trackdays' in their exclusions?

[anonymous-user]

Ask the insurer, if they try and chuck out a claim there's no point saying "but people on the internet said......."

Strictly speaking a track day is not motorsport by the dictionary definition, but......

[PAULJ5555]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

you are competing against the clock if nothing else.

The track days I have done, in their rules you are not allowed to race anyone or are you allowed to use any form of timing device.

In any case, don't assume anything check with the insurance co.

[SpamCan]

Track days are not motorsport, to be motorsport there has to be an official licence from the FIA/MSA/IOPD or similar sanctioning body (otherwise the road traffic act applies) and they also often mandate membership of a racers club (When I raced in Sportsman ET at Santa Pod I had to have an MSA race licence and SPRC membership – for RWYB (not racing) you don’t need those) and yes motorsport as the name implies is a competitive event, be it a circuit race, drag race, hill climb, sprint etc. Track days are closed sessions on private land (not accessible to the public like a car park) with timing prohibited (as mentioned by Docjock) to remove the competitive element.

However, if you look at the average private car insurance policy it will have a exclusion stating that it does not cover the use of the vehicle for motorsport events, track days, auto testing and off roading. Given that you have to declare a ski holiday (or any extreme sport) to a travel insurer I wouldn’t have thought that they will make the distinction between motorsport and track days. I wouldn’t risk it and I’d be taking out specific cover with them or with a specialist company.

[Jonobigblind]

charltjr said:

Ask the insurer, if they try and chuck out a claim there's no point saying "but people on the internet said......."

Strictly speaking a track day is not motorsport by the dictionary definition, but......

^^^^
This. Not all insurers take the same stance so no point gathering info from a bunch of strangers online.

Get your insurer’s view and then keep a written copy with your travel docs for ease if you come to claim or need to deal with a hospital.

[StreetDragster]

Thanks all, didn't realise providers like dogtag existed so I'll go with one of them.

A bit of help with legal wording if the policy states that there is "no personal accident or personal liability cover", does that mean that any medical fees associated with the trackday are not covered should I hurt myself when on track?
If that's the case, the insurance will be no use to me.

I also have EHIC it that's relavent.

Thanks
Matt

Edited by StreetDragster on Wednesday 9th August 16:04

[TwigtheWonderkid]

StreetDragster said:

Thanks all, didn't realise providers like dogtag existed so I'll go with one of them.

A bit of help with legal wording if the policy states that there is "no personal accident or personal liability cover", does that mean that any medical fees associated with the trackday are not covered should I hurt myself when on track?
If that's the case, the insurance will be no use to me.

I also have EHIC it that's relavent.

Thanks
Matt

Edited by StreetDragster on Wednesday 9th August 16:04

No, it doesn't mean that. Personal accident cover is not medical fees, but fixed agreed payments over and above anything else for loss of limbs/sight/hearing etc., and death.

Personal liability cover is any damage /injury you cause to a third party for which you are legally liable.

[StreetDragster]

Brilliant, thanks for the clarification

Matt

[BertBert]

I'm interested, how do you know what the insurance companies mean by the term motorsport? A sport conducted in motors. Sport does not have to be competitive to be a sport. Diving is a sport. Skiing is a sport. Neither have to be competitive to be designated a sport.
Bert

SpamCan said:

Track days are not motorsport

[Tucker1]

Check with the Trackday Organiser as to what they require you to have as a British participant.

I've done Euro bike trackdays/events run by UK owned TDO's which I appreciate are more dangerous than car events. Regardless of you having normal holiday insurance and a valid EHIC none of those UK companies will allow you onto the circuit without also having specific insurance from the likes of Extreme plus, 4counties etc. They will take this paperwork along with your EHIC at the start of the event and will not allow you to take part without it being in their receipt. Should the worse happen they need this info to hand to do the very best they can for you. They do not want to potentially be restricted where they can send you if you have a lower level of cover. The circuit medics from experience also know locally what arrangements give you the best chance, money no object, in any given circumstances.

If you use a TDO owned and run in the country you are visiting they may not ask for anything extra from foreign participants than they do the locals which is likely just a check of your licence and the usual disclaimer/registration forms. I would however check with them to be sure as you don't want to not be able to get out of pit lane having got there. If they don't require anything then decide on how happy you are with the cover you have.

[Decky_Q]

I had to claim off holiday insurance for doctor/ x-ray/ cast/ crutches etc after a mishap and was never asked how it happened. Might not be the norm but that's my experience. MIS insurance.

[SpamCan]

BertBert said:

I'm interested, how do you know what the insurance companies mean by the term motorsport? A sport conducted in motors. Sport does not have to be competitive to be a sport. Diving is a sport. Skiing is a sport. Neither have to be competitive to be designated a sport.
Bert

SpamCan said:

Track days are not motorsport

I don't claim to know what insurers call motorsport (re-read my post) I gave my interpretation of motorsport and listed what a typical car insurance policy (in my experience) excludes.

To me a track day is not motorsport, I wouldn't say I had participated in a sport if I just went on the piste and skiied down it (OK so I'd be on my arse most of the time), to me for it to be a sport there has to be a competition element. I used to shoot air rifles, not competitively and I never considered it to be a sport whilst I was just plinking on a range. The only time it became a 'sport' was going out and hunting because then the competition becomes the prey vs me.

[C70R]

SpamCan said:

BertBert said:

I'm interested, how do you know what the insurance companies mean by the term motorsport? A sport conducted in motors. Sport does not have to be competitive to be a sport. Diving is a sport. Skiing is a sport. Neither have to be competitive to be designated a sport.
Bert

SpamCan said:

Track days are not motorsport

I don't claim to know what insurers call motorsport (re-read my post) I gave my interpretation of motorsport and listed what a typical car insurance policy (in my experience) excludes.

To me a track day is not motorsport, I wouldn't say I had participated in a sport if I just went on the piste and skiied down it (OK so I'd be on my arse most of the time), to me for it to be a sport there has to be a competition element. I used to shoot air rifles, not competitively and I never considered it to be a sport whilst I was just plinking on a range. The only time it became a 'sport' was going out and hunting because then the competition becomes the prey vs me.

But your interpretation is worth approximately zero in this conversation - the only one that matters is the one made by the insurance company. Knowing travel insurance companies as I do (I travel and dive, regularly), I wouldn't dream of taking out a 'standard' policy if I was planning on doing any kind of activity.
If there is the remotest chance that the insurer could claim a trackday as falling under "motorsport" (you'd need to be some kind of special not to even consider this), then take a specialist policy.

[SpamCan]

C70R said:

But your interpretation is worth approximately zero in this conversation - the only one that matters is the one made by the insurance company. Knowing travel insurance companies as I do (I travel and dive, regularly), I wouldn't dream of taking out a 'standard' policy if I was planning on doing any kind of activity.
If there is the remotest chance that the insurer could claim a trackday as falling under "motorsport" (you'd need to be some kind of special not to even consider this), then take a specialist policy.

Which is why my initial post consisted of two paragraphs, one with my interpretation of what motorsport is/isn't and the second listing general exclusions that you find on most car insurance policies, and why I stated that I would take out specific insurance.

[ging84]

It's not the insurance companies interpretation ether, but that of a hypothetical reasonable person.

I do think though that a reasonable person would be happy to agree track days are motorsport for the purpose of an insurance exclusion.

Trying to claim it's not motorsport because it's not a sport because sports must be competitive is pure pedantry and also somewhat debatable.