Insurance questions/possible dispute
Discussion
I am being asked by a friend whose 21 year old son finds himself in a spot of bother. I would like some advice/pointers if possible.
In summary:
Driver loses control of his car at midnight (not drinking) and hits a wall - middle of nowhere, no witnesses. Cleans up mess as far as he can, leaves note on car windscreen. Walks home - car not drivable.
Plod arrives 6am, accuse him of leaving the scene of an accident, drunk driving, careless driving etc. I advise him that plod have little to go on as he wasn't drunk (proven), no witnesses to his driving and the fact they arrived just 6 hours after the accident - so he was still within the time limits to report.
Goes to court. Court throws out most of the case - but convicts on careless driving. 3 points.
Life goes back to normal.
But he forgot to tell his insurance company (he made no claim). His insurance company now want to fine him £600 for not reporting.
Questions:
Can the insurance company fine him?? Where is their loss?
Is there a risk he could be blacklisted? What are the consequences - I assume the common sense ones of not being able to get insured?
If he is asked "have you ever been refused insurance?" by a new insurance company, can he truthfully answer 'no'?
What a nightmare! He's a lovely lad, but always seems to get into various pickles.
Any helpful suggestions would be very welcome.
Thanks
In summary:
Driver loses control of his car at midnight (not drinking) and hits a wall - middle of nowhere, no witnesses. Cleans up mess as far as he can, leaves note on car windscreen. Walks home - car not drivable.
Plod arrives 6am, accuse him of leaving the scene of an accident, drunk driving, careless driving etc. I advise him that plod have little to go on as he wasn't drunk (proven), no witnesses to his driving and the fact they arrived just 6 hours after the accident - so he was still within the time limits to report.
Goes to court. Court throws out most of the case - but convicts on careless driving. 3 points.
Life goes back to normal.
But he forgot to tell his insurance company (he made no claim). His insurance company now want to fine him £600 for not reporting.
Questions:
Can the insurance company fine him?? Where is their loss?
Is there a risk he could be blacklisted? What are the consequences - I assume the common sense ones of not being able to get insured?
If he is asked "have you ever been refused insurance?" by a new insurance company, can he truthfully answer 'no'?
What a nightmare! He's a lovely lad, but always seems to get into various pickles.
Any helpful suggestions would be very welcome.
Thanks
It was an accident. You're supposed to report accidents to your insurance company so they can adjust your premium as you are more likely to have another accident.
Sure most people don't report every little accident with no third party, witnesses, evidence e.t.c. But to have plod on the scene of a non driveable wreck and not inform insurance company is not very bright.
Out of interest, how was it proved he wasn't drunk the time of the accident? I assume breathalyzed 6 hours later?
Sure most people don't report every little accident with no third party, witnesses, evidence e.t.c. But to have plod on the scene of a non driveable wreck and not inform insurance company is not very bright.
Out of interest, how was it proved he wasn't drunk the time of the accident? I assume breathalyzed 6 hours later?
Edited by Thermobaric on Wednesday 23 August 19:36
Thermobaric said:
It was an accident. You're supposed to report accidents to your insurance company so they can adjust your premium as you are more likely to have another accident.
Sure most people don't report every little accident with no third party, witnesses, evidence e.t.c. But to have plod on the scene of a non driveable wreck and not inform insurance company is not very bright.
Very helpful. Thanks.Sure most people don't report every little accident with no third party, witnesses, evidence e.t.c. But to have plod on the scene of a non driveable wreck and not inform insurance company is not very bright.
Thermobaric said:
It was an accident. You're supposed to report accidents to your insurance company so they can adjust your premium as you are more likely to have another accident.
No. Only an accident when two moving vehicles are involved. If someone hits a wall hard and there are no extenuating circumstances it's pretty reasonable to assume they'll be wary of doing it again - as we all would. So they'd be less likely to have a similar accident. popeyewhite said:
Thermobaric said:
It was an accident. You're supposed to report accidents to your insurance company so they can adjust your premium as you are more likely to have another accident.
No. Only an accident when two moving vehicles are involved. popeyewhite said:
Thermobaric said:
It was an accident. You're supposed to report accidents to your insurance company so they can adjust your premium as you are more likely to have another accident.
they'll be wary of doing it again - as we all would. So they'd be less likely to have a similar accident. .....I've just realised I've fallen for your gag...where's that parrot!
popeyewhite said:
Thermobaric said:
It was an accident. You're supposed to report accidents to your insurance company so they can adjust your premium as you are more likely to have another accident.
No. Only an accident when two moving vehicles are involved. If someone hits a wall hard and there are no extenuating circumstances it's pretty reasonable to assume they'll be wary of doing it again - as we all would. So they'd be less likely to have a similar accident. Ahh. So his premiums should now go down? I see......
REALIST123 said:
popeyewhite said:
Thermobaric said:
It was an accident. You're supposed to report accidents to your insurance company so they can adjust your premium as you are more likely to have another accident.
No. Only an accident when two moving vehicles are involved. If someone hits a wall hard and there are no extenuating circumstances it's pretty reasonable to assume they'll be wary of doing it again - as we all would. So they'd be less likely to have a similar accident. Ahh. So his premiums should now go down? I see......
popeyewhite said:
Thermobaric said:
It was an accident. You're supposed to report accidents to your insurance company so they can adjust your premium as you are more likely to have another accident.
No. Only an accident when two moving vehicles are involved. If someone hits a wall hard and there are no extenuating circumstances it's pretty reasonable to assume they'll be wary of doing it again - as we all would. So they'd be less likely to have a similar accident. 
You must be joking
ZOLLAR said:
popeyewhite said:
Thermobaric said:
It was an accident. You're supposed to report accidents to your insurance company so they can adjust your premium as you are more likely to have another accident.
No. Only an accident when two moving vehicles are involved. If someone hits a wall hard and there are no extenuating circumstances it's pretty reasonable to assume they'll be wary of doing it again - as we all would. So they'd be less likely to have a similar accident. You must be joking
Is it possible that the £600 is his insurance excess for any claim, and since plod turned up, whoever owned the wall has made a claim against his insurance?
As for premiums, yes they do increase after a non fault claim. Mine did. That's why they ask about all claims, not just fault claims. I queried this when I renewed my insurance and was told in no uncertain terms that even a non fault accident means I am more likely to make a claim, whether it be fault or non fault.
A named driver does not have their own policy, therefore if a named driver has the fault claim, the policy holder/main driver is the one to lose their NCD. You can't accrue NCD as a named driver though. You can, however, right royally shaft whoever is the main driver on the policy.
You're obliged to report all incidents to your insurers, whether or not a claim arises; if his car was totalled and undriveable after the collision then I'd hazard a guess his insurers are mighty pissed off - especially if they're notified by a third party whose wall is a bit battered.
The insurance company, however, is simply a private company and cannot issue statutory fines. This isn't a "fine" as per se, so it's a civil claim. It's either insurance excess or incurred losses as a result of a breach of contract (failing to notify insurers)
As others above have pointed out, having insurance cancelled brings a whole new world of pain; my advice is start a dialogue with insurers and be a good boy and pay up now, or risk a 5-figure premium at next renewal. We all make mistakes, it's why pencils have rubbers on them. It's how you deal with mistakes that matters.
Oh btw what sort of car was it?
As for premiums, yes they do increase after a non fault claim. Mine did. That's why they ask about all claims, not just fault claims. I queried this when I renewed my insurance and was told in no uncertain terms that even a non fault accident means I am more likely to make a claim, whether it be fault or non fault.
A named driver does not have their own policy, therefore if a named driver has the fault claim, the policy holder/main driver is the one to lose their NCD. You can't accrue NCD as a named driver though. You can, however, right royally shaft whoever is the main driver on the policy.
You're obliged to report all incidents to your insurers, whether or not a claim arises; if his car was totalled and undriveable after the collision then I'd hazard a guess his insurers are mighty pissed off - especially if they're notified by a third party whose wall is a bit battered.
The insurance company, however, is simply a private company and cannot issue statutory fines. This isn't a "fine" as per se, so it's a civil claim. It's either insurance excess or incurred losses as a result of a breach of contract (failing to notify insurers)
As others above have pointed out, having insurance cancelled brings a whole new world of pain; my advice is start a dialogue with insurers and be a good boy and pay up now, or risk a 5-figure premium at next renewal. We all make mistakes, it's why pencils have rubbers on them. It's how you deal with mistakes that matters.
Oh btw what sort of car was it?
2 sMoKiN bArReLs said:
popeyewhite said:
Thermobaric said:
It was an accident. You're supposed to report accidents to your insurance company so they can adjust your premium as you are more likely to have another accident.
they'll be wary of doing it again - as we all would. So they'd be less likely to have a similar accident. .....I've just realised I've fallen for your gag...where's that parrot!
However there is a serious point behind my comment. You park a car up for the night on your drive. A visitor to your nice area gets drunk, swerves to avoid an oncoming car and ends up hitting yours glancingly. I'd be interested to know how an accident of this nature means you're more likely to be involved in another accident. Answers that include the phrase 'statistics show' will be dismissed immediately as just as vapid as someone suggesting an idiot is less likely to drive into a wall because he's already done it and it hurt.
NDA said:
I am being asked by a friend whose 21 year old son finds himself in a spot of bother. I would like some advice/pointers if possible.
In summary:
Driver loses control of his car at midnight (not drinking) and hits a wall - middle of nowhere, no witnesses. Cleans up mess as far as he can, leaves note on car windscreen. Walks home - car not drivable.
Plod arrives 6am, accuse him of leaving the scene of an accident, drunk driving, careless driving etc. I advise him that plod have little to go on as he wasn't drunk (proven), no witnesses to his driving and the fact they arrived just 6 hours after the accident - so he was still within the time limits to report.
Goes to court. Court throws out most of the case - but convicts on careless driving. 3 points.
Life goes back to normal.
But he forgot to tell his insurance company (he made no claim). His insurance company now want to fine him £600 for not reporting.
Questions:
Can the insurance company fine him?? Where is their loss?
Is there a risk he could be blacklisted? What are the consequences - I assume the common sense ones of not being able to get insured?
If he is asked "have you ever been refused insurance?" by a new insurance company, can he truthfully answer 'no'?
What a nightmare! He's a lovely lad, but always seems to get into various pickles.
Any helpful suggestions would be very welcome.
Thanks
Which insurance policy?In summary:
Driver loses control of his car at midnight (not drinking) and hits a wall - middle of nowhere, no witnesses. Cleans up mess as far as he can, leaves note on car windscreen. Walks home - car not drivable.
Plod arrives 6am, accuse him of leaving the scene of an accident, drunk driving, careless driving etc. I advise him that plod have little to go on as he wasn't drunk (proven), no witnesses to his driving and the fact they arrived just 6 hours after the accident - so he was still within the time limits to report.
Goes to court. Court throws out most of the case - but convicts on careless driving. 3 points.
Life goes back to normal.
But he forgot to tell his insurance company (he made no claim). His insurance company now want to fine him £600 for not reporting.
Questions:
Can the insurance company fine him?? Where is their loss?
Is there a risk he could be blacklisted? What are the consequences - I assume the common sense ones of not being able to get insured?
If he is asked "have you ever been refused insurance?" by a new insurance company, can he truthfully answer 'no'?
What a nightmare! He's a lovely lad, but always seems to get into various pickles.
Any helpful suggestions would be very welcome.
Thanks
If the one that was in place when he took out the policy, then he doesn't need to claim if he doesn't want to, but the owner of the wall may well do. The insurance company can't raise the cost for the policy year that the accident happened in.
If it's a policy taken out after the accident, then he's well and truly stuffed. He hasn't declared the accident (he will have been asked), he hasn't declared that he had a prosecution pending (he will have been asked). The insurance company are totally right in asking for extra money in this case. If he doesn't pay the extra, then they will cancel the policy and he will have to declare this forever and ever and suffer the increased cost of that.
Is he a promising footballer too?
popeyewhite said:
2 sMoKiN bArReLs said:
popeyewhite said:
Thermobaric said:
It was an accident. You're supposed to report accidents to your insurance company so they can adjust your premium as you are more likely to have another accident.
they'll be wary of doing it again - as we all would. So they'd be less likely to have a similar accident. .....I've just realised I've fallen for your gag...where's that parrot!
However there is a serious point behind my comment. You park a car up for the night on your drive. A visitor to your nice area gets drunk, swerves to avoid an oncoming car and ends up hitting yours glancingly. I'd be interested to know how an accident of this nature means you're more likely to be involved in another accident. Answers that include the phrase 'statistics show' will be dismissed immediately as just as vapid as someone suggesting an idiot is less likely to drive into a wall because he's already done it and it hurt.
popeyewhite said:
2 sMoKiN bArReLs said:
popeyewhite said:
Thermobaric said:
It was an accident. You're supposed to report accidents to your insurance company so they can adjust your premium as you are more likely to have another accident.
they'll be wary of doing it again - as we all would. So they'd be less likely to have a similar accident. .....I've just realised I've fallen for your gag...where's that parrot!
However there is a serious point behind my comment. You park a car up for the night on your drive. A visitor to your nice area gets drunk, swerves to avoid an oncoming car and ends up hitting yours glancingly. I'd be interested to know how an accident of this nature means you're more likely to be involved in another accident. Answers that include the phrase 'statistics show' will be dismissed immediately as just as vapid as someone suggesting an idiot is less likely to drive into a wall because he's already done it and it hurt.
I'm now middle aged, my eyes are getting worse, my reactions slower so it would be easy to argue that I'm more likely to have an accident....yet my insurance has never been cheaper. I wonder why that is....could it be because my age group don't crash much?
Wiccan of Darkness said:
Is it possible that the £600 is his insurance excess for any claim, and since plod turned up, whoever owned the wall has made a claim against his insurance?
As for premiums, yes they do increase after a non fault claim. Mine did. That's why they ask about all claims, not just fault claims. I queried this when I renewed my insurance and was told in no uncertain terms that even a non fault accident means I am more likely to make a claim, whether it be fault or non fault.
A named driver does not have their own policy, therefore if a named driver has the fault claim, the policy holder/main driver is the one to lose their NCD. You can't accrue NCD as a named driver though. You can, however, right royally shaft whoever is the main driver on the policy.
You're obliged to report all incidents to your insurers, whether or not a claim arises; if his car was totalled and undriveable after the collision then I'd hazard a guess his insurers are mighty pissed off - especially if they're notified by a third party whose wall is a bit battered.
The insurance company, however, is simply a private company and cannot issue statutory fines. This isn't a "fine" as per se, so it's a civil claim. It's either insurance excess or incurred losses as a result of a breach of contract (failing to notify insurers)
As others above have pointed out, having insurance cancelled brings a whole new world of pain; my advice is start a dialogue with insurers and be a good boy and pay up now, or risk a 5-figure premium at next renewal. We all make mistakes, it's why pencils have rubbers on them. It's how you deal with mistakes that matters.
Oh btw what sort of car was it?
Thanks for this... I will try and get a few more details. The car was an elderly Polo. The driver made no claim - I am checking to see if the wall owner did.As for premiums, yes they do increase after a non fault claim. Mine did. That's why they ask about all claims, not just fault claims. I queried this when I renewed my insurance and was told in no uncertain terms that even a non fault accident means I am more likely to make a claim, whether it be fault or non fault.
A named driver does not have their own policy, therefore if a named driver has the fault claim, the policy holder/main driver is the one to lose their NCD. You can't accrue NCD as a named driver though. You can, however, right royally shaft whoever is the main driver on the policy.
You're obliged to report all incidents to your insurers, whether or not a claim arises; if his car was totalled and undriveable after the collision then I'd hazard a guess his insurers are mighty pissed off - especially if they're notified by a third party whose wall is a bit battered.
The insurance company, however, is simply a private company and cannot issue statutory fines. This isn't a "fine" as per se, so it's a civil claim. It's either insurance excess or incurred losses as a result of a breach of contract (failing to notify insurers)
As others above have pointed out, having insurance cancelled brings a whole new world of pain; my advice is start a dialogue with insurers and be a good boy and pay up now, or risk a 5-figure premium at next renewal. We all make mistakes, it's why pencils have rubbers on them. It's how you deal with mistakes that matters.
Oh btw what sort of car was it?
The lad is a lovely lad - but one of those people who always seems to trip up one way or another. Very disorganised - I feel sorry for him because he's always getting into pickles.
Gavia said:
Which insurance policy?
If the one that was in place when he took out the policy, then he doesn't need to claim if he doesn't want to, but the owner of the wall may well do. The insurance company can't raise the cost for the policy year that the accident happened in.
If it's a policy taken out after the accident, then he's well and truly stuffed. He hasn't declared the accident (he will have been asked), he hasn't declared that he had a prosecution pending (he will have been asked). The insurance company are totally right in asking for extra money in this case. If he doesn't pay the extra, then they will cancel the policy and he will have to declare this forever and ever and suffer the increased cost of that.
Is he a promising footballer too?
I'll check on the policy situation - i.e. if it was taken out after the accident. If the one that was in place when he took out the policy, then he doesn't need to claim if he doesn't want to, but the owner of the wall may well do. The insurance company can't raise the cost for the policy year that the accident happened in.
If it's a policy taken out after the accident, then he's well and truly stuffed. He hasn't declared the accident (he will have been asked), he hasn't declared that he had a prosecution pending (he will have been asked). The insurance company are totally right in asking for extra money in this case. If he doesn't pay the extra, then they will cancel the policy and he will have to declare this forever and ever and suffer the increased cost of that.
Is he a promising footballer too?
Not a promising footballer, although I've made it sound that way a bit. He's utterly charming, but a bit of a Mr Bean. If it's going to go pear shaped, it will for him.
Forums | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff