Police resources - how bad are they?
Discussion
How bad are police resources these days? This Daily Telegraph report mentioned that 36% of people hadn't seen a single police or PCSO foot patrol in the last year. Has austerity budgeting taken too much toll?
Best mate is a Sgt Policeman, it is very bad but he says the state of the Ambulance service is far worse. Over an hour to get an Ambulance to a very serious RTA, ended up with an off duty Ambulance Tech being called out as he lived close by (turned up in his private car with his Go bag).
Lad rode his bike into the back of a neighbours car recently and a passer-by called an ambulance. He cut his head, but appeared otherwise OK.
We're in a semi-rural part of Cheshire.
Three "panda" type cars arrived at pace and then a van (which was handy as it took the lads bike home) and they stood around waiting for the traffic cop who arrived later. To be fair, the ambulance service, obviously not wanting to be outdone, sent a helicopter!
My comments about the lack of response when reporting prowlers wasn't well received!
We're in a semi-rural part of Cheshire.
Three "panda" type cars arrived at pace and then a van (which was handy as it took the lads bike home) and they stood around waiting for the traffic cop who arrived later. To be fair, the ambulance service, obviously not wanting to be outdone, sent a helicopter!
My comments about the lack of response when reporting prowlers wasn't well received!
In 1965 Derbyshire Constabulary (my local force) had an establishment of 852 and an actual strength of 775. Currently there are around 1,730 regular officers, 230 Special Constables, 160 PCSOs and 1,290 police staff.
We're supposed to have a community beat team but in ten years I've never seen them, the only time we see police on foot are when they're guarding football fans.
We're supposed to have a community beat team but in ten years I've never seen them, the only time we see police on foot are when they're guarding football fans.
Riley Blue said:
In 1965 Derbyshire Constabulary (my local force) had an establishment of 852 and an actual strength of 775. Currently there are around 1,730 regular officers, 230 Special Constables, 160 PCSOs and 1,290 police staff.
We're supposed to have a community beat team but in ten years I've never seen them, the only time we see police on foot are when they're guarding football fans.
The population of Derby has doubled since 1965, most of that growth appears to be in the early 70's, not sure on the rest of the county. Add in more roads, more traffic and more crime = more Police. Out of interest, how do those Police numbers compare to say 5 years ago?We're supposed to have a community beat team but in ten years I've never seen them, the only time we see police on foot are when they're guarding football fans.
Johnnytheboy said:
That's why crime is going through the roof!
Is it? or is it just our perception of it? not helped by social media. If you payed attention to the "village" facebook page I live in, you would think we were on the brink of WW111 sometimes. The fact is actual crime in the village has remained fairly constant. Just that we didn't perhaps all know about it. Nor was it embellished as much.
Sheepshanks said:
Lad rode his bike into the back of a neighbours car recently and a passer-by called an ambulance. He cut his head, but appeared otherwise OK.
We're in a semi-rural part of Cheshire.
Three "panda" type cars arrived at pace and then a van (which was handy as it took the lads bike home) and they stood around waiting for the traffic cop who arrived later. To be fair, the ambulance service, obviously not wanting to be outdone, sent a helicopter!
My comments about the lack of response when reporting prowlers wasn't well received!
All this happened for riding a push bike into the back of a car???We're in a semi-rural part of Cheshire.
Three "panda" type cars arrived at pace and then a van (which was handy as it took the lads bike home) and they stood around waiting for the traffic cop who arrived later. To be fair, the ambulance service, obviously not wanting to be outdone, sent a helicopter!
My comments about the lack of response when reporting prowlers wasn't well received!
Drumroll said:
Johnnytheboy said:
That's why crime is going through the roof!
Is it? or is it just our perception of it? not helped by social media. If you payed attention to the "village" facebook page I live in, you would think we were on the brink of WW111 sometimes. The fact is actual crime in the village has remained fairly constant. Just that we didn't perhaps all know about it. Nor was it embellished as much.
However, social media has helped to drive the visibility of crime to the average punter. It appears some times we are in a epidemic.
Local area groups on Facebook for instance now alert me to pretty much a) every car crime b) what everyone has had for dinner and c) what the local squirrel has done today d) who's cat is this e) someone looks sketchy because he blinked at me. etc. this is also replicated with friends across the UK.. i can now see what they had for lunch, and that someone has broken into a car in Cornwall in a tiny village that no one has heard of.. Previously, this would not have been possible - i would of heard about the car crime via a friend, of a friend, of a friend, who's kids have had a play date.. etc. or via the local newspaper buried in the bottom left hand corner.
Yes, i believe there has been an increase in crime due to recent years and global recession. Poverty has driven people to help themselves.
I also believe kids nowadays have become more brazen, and social media has helped drive this - making them aware of their "rights" rightly or wrongly.
Additionally, role models have altered somewhat - previously it was police officers, sporting hero's, ambulance drivers, firemen (or was in 1980's) etc. nowadays it is "big dollar sign massive2" (or whatever) in Bolivia with his "gold chains" and pimped up (garden) hoes.
Further, we are becoming more and more multinational and multicultural. Moral ideals beat into us by our parents, are not similar the world over in some places - meaning that some people morally would not hesitate to screw you over.
I work as a Paramedic in a semi-rural Cheshire and regularly deal with the same police officers on jobs.
To sum it up in my area, once the 'new' officers arrived in the last 12-18months the old guard who could retire did, the ones who hadn't had long enough in to have any real benefits left, and then the ones in the middle that are stuck have no moral of any sorts.
That's down to a mixture of new officers not being able to do the job well/young/no life skills etc, the public calling for everything and nothing and massively under staffed. That's when things and staff go wrong, leading to less moral and more sickness or disciplinary issues.
From an ambulance point of view, we have two ambulances of the big yellow variety on 24/7 in a City setting, we cover all the surrounding rural areas, we tend to go into Wales a lot to cover their short comings and we also take people with certain needs over to Liverpool. We get send to all kinds of nonsense, rightly or wrongly (even if the patient only needs to see a GP it can take over an hour from arrival to leaving) still attend and have to deal with that call.
Add any delays in getting patient handed over in hospital, and you're starting to see a picture of how over run and under resourced we are. We don't have enough Paramedics to have one on every ambulance as the working conditions vs pay vs better opportunities means new and old paramedics are leaving in their droves.
In terms of the bike story above, why are people calling in the first place? Of course 'just to check them out' I'd guess, or the fact the caller hasn't actually gone and asked the patient if they're alright. Chances are they didn't have an ambulance to send, might have had a RRV car that can't convey to send and the helicopter was available to start mobilising until a first report was given.
To sum it up in my area, once the 'new' officers arrived in the last 12-18months the old guard who could retire did, the ones who hadn't had long enough in to have any real benefits left, and then the ones in the middle that are stuck have no moral of any sorts.
That's down to a mixture of new officers not being able to do the job well/young/no life skills etc, the public calling for everything and nothing and massively under staffed. That's when things and staff go wrong, leading to less moral and more sickness or disciplinary issues.
From an ambulance point of view, we have two ambulances of the big yellow variety on 24/7 in a City setting, we cover all the surrounding rural areas, we tend to go into Wales a lot to cover their short comings and we also take people with certain needs over to Liverpool. We get send to all kinds of nonsense, rightly or wrongly (even if the patient only needs to see a GP it can take over an hour from arrival to leaving) still attend and have to deal with that call.
Add any delays in getting patient handed over in hospital, and you're starting to see a picture of how over run and under resourced we are. We don't have enough Paramedics to have one on every ambulance as the working conditions vs pay vs better opportunities means new and old paramedics are leaving in their droves.
In terms of the bike story above, why are people calling in the first place? Of course 'just to check them out' I'd guess, or the fact the caller hasn't actually gone and asked the patient if they're alright. Chances are they didn't have an ambulance to send, might have had a RRV car that can't convey to send and the helicopter was available to start mobilising until a first report was given.
Alucidnation said:
All this happened for riding a push bike into the back of a car???
Yep. And on a quiet village estate road, no traffic issues to cope with etc. I couldn't believe the number of Police vehicles that tore up - I've no idea how it works, but you'd imagine that once one or maybe two Officers accepted the call they'd leave it at that. But they kept coming.I thought the rapid response paramedic was joking when he mentioned 'helicopter', but sure enough it arrived. The doctor on board didn't seem impressed and sent the lad off in a road ambulance.
Sheepshanks said:
Alucidnation said:
All this happened for riding a push bike into the back of a car???
Yep. And on a quiet village estate road, no traffic issues to cope with etc. I couldn't believe the number of Police vehicles that tore up - I've no idea how it works, but you'd imagine that once one or maybe two Officers accepted the call they'd leave it at that. But they kept coming.I thought the rapid response paramedic was joking when he mentioned 'helicopter', but sure enough it arrived. The doctor on board didn't seem impressed and sent the lad off in a road ambulance.
There is potential for closing the road, preserving a scene, making sure nothing moves if recon is required, taking accounts from witnesses.
A call taker will only be able to gain so much detail, hence why they sent a few to deal with it.
Chilledbud said:
I work as a Paramedic in a semi-rural Cheshire and regularly deal with the same police officers on jobs.
To sum it up in my area, once the 'new' officers arrived in the last 12-18months the old guard who could retire did, the ones who hadn't had long enough in to have any real benefits left, and then the ones in the middle that are stuck have no moral of any sorts.
That's down to a mixture of new officers not being able to do the job well/young/no life skills etc, the public calling for everything and nothing and massively under staffed. That's when things and staff go wrong, leading to less moral and more sickness or disciplinary issues.
From an ambulance point of view, we have two ambulances of the big yellow variety on 24/7 in a City setting, we cover all the surrounding rural areas, we tend to go into Wales a lot to cover their short comings and we also take people with certain needs over to Liverpool. We get send to all kinds of nonsense, rightly or wrongly (even if the patient only needs to see a GP it can take over an hour from arrival to leaving) still attend and have to deal with that call.
Add any delays in getting patient handed over in hospital, and you're starting to see a picture of how over run and under resourced we are. We don't have enough Paramedics to have one on every ambulance as the working conditions vs pay vs better opportunities means new and old paramedics are leaving in their droves.
In terms of the bike story above, why are people calling in the first place? Of course 'just to check them out' I'd guess, or the fact the caller hasn't actually gone and asked the patient if they're alright. Chances are they didn't have an ambulance to send, might have had a RRV car that can't convey to send and the helicopter was available to start mobilising until a first report was given.
Please clarify if you mean "morale" or "morals".To sum it up in my area, once the 'new' officers arrived in the last 12-18months the old guard who could retire did, the ones who hadn't had long enough in to have any real benefits left, and then the ones in the middle that are stuck have no moral of any sorts.
That's down to a mixture of new officers not being able to do the job well/young/no life skills etc, the public calling for everything and nothing and massively under staffed. That's when things and staff go wrong, leading to less moral and more sickness or disciplinary issues.
From an ambulance point of view, we have two ambulances of the big yellow variety on 24/7 in a City setting, we cover all the surrounding rural areas, we tend to go into Wales a lot to cover their short comings and we also take people with certain needs over to Liverpool. We get send to all kinds of nonsense, rightly or wrongly (even if the patient only needs to see a GP it can take over an hour from arrival to leaving) still attend and have to deal with that call.
Add any delays in getting patient handed over in hospital, and you're starting to see a picture of how over run and under resourced we are. We don't have enough Paramedics to have one on every ambulance as the working conditions vs pay vs better opportunities means new and old paramedics are leaving in their droves.
In terms of the bike story above, why are people calling in the first place? Of course 'just to check them out' I'd guess, or the fact the caller hasn't actually gone and asked the patient if they're alright. Chances are they didn't have an ambulance to send, might have had a RRV car that can't convey to send and the helicopter was available to start mobilising until a first report was given.
I'm the milkman in a small town.
Years ago of you saw anything suspicious during the night I could either nip into the local police station where you might find someone probably not on the desk but at least through the back. Failing that there would be a police car running about that you would see at least once a night.
Now...the station is open 9-5 and you never see a patrol car at night.
If I see anything suspicious I have to phone 101 in the middle of my shift and being given the choice of reporting an incident or reporting lost property (as you do in the middle of the night). I then get put on hold as 'we are experiencing a high demand' (this could be 3am on a Tuesday night). Then you speak to someone who hasn't a clue about the area and try to explain whereabouts you are.
Or the alternative choice....going 'meh' it's not my problem and carrying on working.
Guess which I tend to do?
HantsRat said:
It's bad. And more & more officers are starting to hesitate whether to respond on blue lights or use force against those resisting for fear of prosecution.
I know someone who quit recently and one of the reasons they did so was due to the pressure that was being exerted on them not to report or then push for the charging of the person over the window frame (including double glazing, the works) that they had thrown down at officer from a 3rd storey window hole (there wasn't a window to throw it through as it was the window!) whilst the officer and colleague were waiting to be let into a block of flats to deal with a DV call from guess which flat...Forums | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff