Alarm/immobiliser stops working while at garage
Discussion
My TVR has been at the garage for a couple of months, when the garage informed me a couple of weeks ago that the alarm/immobiliser has stopped responding when they put it on the ramps. The alarm/immobiliser was working perfectly when I handed the car over to the garage, and has never had a problem in the 7 years I have owned the car.
They have been investigating the cause of a speedo fault amongst other things, which would involve removing the dashboard (where the immobiliser is) but say it stopped responding when they put it on the ramps for unrelated work, which occurred 3-4 weeks later (as it took me a while to procure some correct parts).
They have had an auto-electrician out who says the feeds to the alarm/immobiliser are all as they should be and have tested both fobs and found them to be transmitting, and the immobiliser disarms correctly when the backup "dalis key" is pushed into the slot - so it appears to be a fob/immobiliser issue.
The latest news from the garage is that they are investigating whether the aerial has become dislodged, but I suspect the issue is that the battery has gone dead and the immobiliser has become unsync'ed when they have jumpstarted it (although I have no proof that this has happened) - as this is a known occurrence with the standard META alarm/immobiliser system.
So my question is - who's liability is this?
- alarm/immobiliser working perfectly when handed over to the garage
- alarm/immobiliser working fine for the first 2 months with the garage
- work being done near the alarm/immobiliser
- alarm/immobiliser stops working whilst in their possession
I see this as a Duty of Care liability - they are in possession of the car and if they have let the battery go flat and this has occurred as a result of their actions then I would hope that this was their responsibility to get it fixed.
If it transpired somehow the aerial has been dislodged, then again I would expect it to be their responsibility as they have been working in the dashboard near the unit - and it has happened within their possession of the car (things do not undo themselves by magic)...
But I really need to know where I stand with regards to who should pay the costs for returning the alarm to the same state that I handed it over to the garage in...
Many thanks.
They have been investigating the cause of a speedo fault amongst other things, which would involve removing the dashboard (where the immobiliser is) but say it stopped responding when they put it on the ramps for unrelated work, which occurred 3-4 weeks later (as it took me a while to procure some correct parts).
They have had an auto-electrician out who says the feeds to the alarm/immobiliser are all as they should be and have tested both fobs and found them to be transmitting, and the immobiliser disarms correctly when the backup "dalis key" is pushed into the slot - so it appears to be a fob/immobiliser issue.
The latest news from the garage is that they are investigating whether the aerial has become dislodged, but I suspect the issue is that the battery has gone dead and the immobiliser has become unsync'ed when they have jumpstarted it (although I have no proof that this has happened) - as this is a known occurrence with the standard META alarm/immobiliser system.
So my question is - who's liability is this?
- alarm/immobiliser working perfectly when handed over to the garage
- alarm/immobiliser working fine for the first 2 months with the garage
- work being done near the alarm/immobiliser
- alarm/immobiliser stops working whilst in their possession
I see this as a Duty of Care liability - they are in possession of the car and if they have let the battery go flat and this has occurred as a result of their actions then I would hope that this was their responsibility to get it fixed.
If it transpired somehow the aerial has been dislodged, then again I would expect it to be their responsibility as they have been working in the dashboard near the unit - and it has happened within their possession of the car (things do not undo themselves by magic)...
But I really need to know where I stand with regards to who should pay the costs for returning the alarm to the same state that I handed it over to the garage in...
Many thanks.
AFAIK there isn't an external aerial on the Meta unit. There are two big connectors, one 12 pin and one 18 pin, and a 4? pin one that is the one of the links to the M36T2 immobiliser.
Whatever aerial the Meta unit has, must be inside it, or it feeds into the unit via one of the big plugs. If the 4 pin connector isn't connected, then the alarm and the immobiliser won't talk to each other, so disarming the alarm won't disarm the immobiliser. The 4 pin wiring goes all over the back of the dash - from the socket on the steering wheel cowl to the immobiliser to the Meta unit itself, and there are a few connectors in the wiring run.
If it was me, I'd be having a chat with the bloke who runs Abacus Alarms. He diagnosed a problem with mine over the phone.
Whatever aerial the Meta unit has, must be inside it, or it feeds into the unit via one of the big plugs. If the 4 pin connector isn't connected, then the alarm and the immobiliser won't talk to each other, so disarming the alarm won't disarm the immobiliser. The 4 pin wiring goes all over the back of the dash - from the socket on the steering wheel cowl to the immobiliser to the Meta unit itself, and there are a few connectors in the wiring run.
If it was me, I'd be having a chat with the bloke who runs Abacus Alarms. He diagnosed a problem with mine over the phone.
Dominic TVRetto said:
Thanks - Abacus is one of the websites I have been looking at to try and diagnose the isuue & cause.
Just trying to find out where I stand legally if the garage try to charge me for their diagnosis time & repairs, which I see as a distinct possibility...
Can you prove (with evidence) that the alarm/immobiliser was working in before you handed it into the garage sir?Just trying to find out where I stand legally if the garage try to charge me for their diagnosis time & repairs, which I see as a distinct possibility...
If no, then I'm afraid you don't stand anywhere legally as there isn't a case.
Dominic TVRetto said:
My TVR has been at the garage for a couple of months, when the garage informed me a couple of weeks ago that the alarm/immobiliser has stopped responding when they put it on the ramps. The alarm/immobiliser was working perfectly when I handed the car over to the garage, and has never had a problem in the 7 years I have owned the car.
They have been investigating the cause of a speedo fault amongst other things, which would involve removing the dashboard (where the immobiliser is) but say it stopped responding when they put it on the ramps for unrelated work, which occurred 3-4 weeks later (as it took me a while to procure some correct parts).
They have had an auto-electrician out who says the feeds to the alarm/immobiliser are all as they should be and have tested both fobs and found them to be transmitting, and the immobiliser disarms correctly when the backup "dalis key" is pushed into the slot - so it appears to be a fob/immobiliser issue.
The latest news from the garage is that they are investigating whether the aerial has become dislodged, but I suspect the issue is that the battery has gone dead and the immobiliser has become unsync'ed when they have jumpstarted it (although I have no proof that this has happened) - as this is a known occurrence with the standard META alarm/immobiliser system.
So my question is - who's liability is this?
- alarm/immobiliser working perfectly when handed over to the garage
- alarm/immobiliser working fine for the first 2 months with the garage
- work being done near the alarm/immobiliser
- alarm/immobiliser stops working whilst in their possession
I see this as a Duty of Care liability - they are in possession of the car and if they have let the battery go flat and this has occurred as a result of their actions then I would hope that this was their responsibility to get it fixed.
If it transpired somehow the aerial has been dislodged, then again I would expect it to be their responsibility as they have been working in the dashboard near the unit - and it has happened within their possession of the car (things do not undo themselves by magic)...
But I really need to know where I stand with regards to who should pay the costs for returning the alarm to the same state that I handed it over to the garage in...
Many thanks.
I fear this may not get the reaction that you want.They have been investigating the cause of a speedo fault amongst other things, which would involve removing the dashboard (where the immobiliser is) but say it stopped responding when they put it on the ramps for unrelated work, which occurred 3-4 weeks later (as it took me a while to procure some correct parts).
They have had an auto-electrician out who says the feeds to the alarm/immobiliser are all as they should be and have tested both fobs and found them to be transmitting, and the immobiliser disarms correctly when the backup "dalis key" is pushed into the slot - so it appears to be a fob/immobiliser issue.
The latest news from the garage is that they are investigating whether the aerial has become dislodged, but I suspect the issue is that the battery has gone dead and the immobiliser has become unsync'ed when they have jumpstarted it (although I have no proof that this has happened) - as this is a known occurrence with the standard META alarm/immobiliser system.
So my question is - who's liability is this?
- alarm/immobiliser working perfectly when handed over to the garage
- alarm/immobiliser working fine for the first 2 months with the garage
- work being done near the alarm/immobiliser
- alarm/immobiliser stops working whilst in their possession
I see this as a Duty of Care liability - they are in possession of the car and if they have let the battery go flat and this has occurred as a result of their actions then I would hope that this was their responsibility to get it fixed.
If it transpired somehow the aerial has been dislodged, then again I would expect it to be their responsibility as they have been working in the dashboard near the unit - and it has happened within their possession of the car (things do not undo themselves by magic)...
But I really need to know where I stand with regards to who should pay the costs for returning the alarm to the same state that I handed it over to the garage in...
Many thanks.
DSGbangs said:
Can you prove (with evidence) that the alarm/immobiliser was working in before you handed it into the garage sir?
If no, then I'm afraid you don't stand anywhere legally as there isn't a case.
I was able to drive it to the garage, in the way that they are unable to drive it now.If no, then I'm afraid you don't stand anywhere legally as there isn't a case.
I have an email from the garage (after about 2 months of sporadic work) requesting my backup fob.
Why? Because the fob they have been using to move the car around the garage for 2 months suddenly doesn't work - I have another email from them saying they have tested the fob and it is transmitting.
Ie. It was disarming the immobiliser and now suddenly doesn't, hence the need for the back up fob after 2 months - therefore a change in status between working and not working, during their possession of the car.
Why? Because the fob they have been using to move the car around the garage for 2 months suddenly doesn't work - I have another email from them saying they have tested the fob and it is transmitting.
Ie. It was disarming the immobiliser and now suddenly doesn't, hence the need for the back up fob after 2 months - therefore a change in status between working and not working, during their possession of the car.
Dominic TVRetto said:
Ie. It was disarming the immobiliser and now suddenly doesn't, hence the need for the back up fob after 2 months - therefore a change in status between working and not working, during their possession of the car.
Playing devils advocate they might argue that's purely a coincidence and it could have stopped working at any time, and they have done nothing that could have caused the issue.TVR's and their immobilisers do have that reputation, as I know from my experience unfortunately.
Have you talked to them yet or have they indicated they will be charging you to sort the issue?
Dominic TVRetto said:
DSGbangs said:
Can you prove (with evidence) that the alarm/immobiliser was working in before you handed it into the garage sir?
If no, then I'm afraid you don't stand anywhere legally as there isn't a case.
I was able to drive it to the garage, in the way that they are unable to drive it now.If no, then I'm afraid you don't stand anywhere legally as there isn't a case.
justinio said:
Just get them to rip the thing out. More trouble than they're worth.
If someone really wanted the car, an immobiliser wouldn't stop them
It's an option, but not one that many Insurers would be happy with I suspect.If someone really wanted the car, an immobiliser wouldn't stop them
The easiest way to fix this (IMHO) - although it will cost £300 in parts - is to swap the Meta M99T2/M36T2 for a plug and play Meta HPAT/M36T2 replacement. If you buy it from Abacus they supply a pigtail wiring insert which fixes the hot start problem and gives you the ability to pop the boot from the keyfob.
I say the easiest way, because it wouldn't take long to rack up a £300 bill if the alarm unit has to be taken out and sent back to one of the Meta specialists to have the 'brain' and the keyfobs re-programmed, if that is what it comes down to at the end.
If the dash is in bits, swapping over the boxes will be a job that shouldn't take more than half an hour I'd have thought.
justinio said:
Just get them to rip the thing out. More trouble than they're worth.
If someone really wanted the car, an immobiliser wouldn't stop them
Is not that simple - this is not an aftermarket alarm, is a fundamentally integrated part of the car. Is part of the OE functionality of the car controlling the door unlocking etc. (Remember no key hole on the TVR)If someone really wanted the car, an immobiliser wouldn't stop them
To "rip this out" would require significant modification to the way the car fundamentally works and change it significantly from OE spec and functionality.
The moment you turn the ignition off, the immobiliser kicks in 15 seconds after and you need to disarm it to start it again.
There is no way to "turn it off" from doing this hence my comment about driving it - as to unlock the car and drive it you would require a working fob.
Theoretically you could turn the immobiliser itself off with the Dalis touchkey, but you would still require a working fob to unlock the doors in the first place - hence the comment that driving it to the garage require's the fob/immobiliser system to be working.
You would get a better and more accurate technical response if you put this in the Cerbera forum. Cerberas do not like being left standing for long periods, The battery will go flat and then all sorts of things go wrong, When the battery is brought back to life this must be done with all doors and windows open otherwise the alarm and the door systems are out of phase. I think there is also a standby battery in the alarm which can just fail, but will also get upset if left connected to a car with a dead battery.
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