Auction remote bidding - distance selling?!?
Discussion
I had a nose around a classic car auction near me on Friday. The car I was specifically interested in had a good write-up on their website and suggested 4 out of 5 for bodywork, stating "brilliantly executed" and "appears unmarked".
Anyway, in the flesh it was nowhere near - poor repairs to the back-end (poor alignment and poor paint) meant it needed properly sorting-out from the B-pillars back, including fixing some poor panel-gaps and a strange point-crease at the corner of each rear arch spoiling the line of each rear wing (I've had 2 of these before - the auction example was definitely wrong). Oh, and replacing the missing rear electric aerial which had left a circular hole in the top of the rear wing.
Anyway, it went for what in the current market is reasonably strong money (vs current classified adverts and what I'm aware of in terms of recent actual sale prices) - the sort of money that should get you a cared-for but well-used car only needing light attention.
So I figure it went to a remote bidder who (foolishly) trusted what was written down. Which has got me and a mate thinking:-
- Do distance-selling regs apply to auctions?
- Do (should?) auction houses have any liability for what they write about the consigned vehicles?
- Is there ANY comeback for a buyer if they find themselves in such a position? Or is it just 'caveat emptor', and never-ever remote bid without someone trusted having eyeballed the car...
Anyway, in the flesh it was nowhere near - poor repairs to the back-end (poor alignment and poor paint) meant it needed properly sorting-out from the B-pillars back, including fixing some poor panel-gaps and a strange point-crease at the corner of each rear arch spoiling the line of each rear wing (I've had 2 of these before - the auction example was definitely wrong). Oh, and replacing the missing rear electric aerial which had left a circular hole in the top of the rear wing.
Anyway, it went for what in the current market is reasonably strong money (vs current classified adverts and what I'm aware of in terms of recent actual sale prices) - the sort of money that should get you a cared-for but well-used car only needing light attention.
So I figure it went to a remote bidder who (foolishly) trusted what was written down. Which has got me and a mate thinking:-
- Do distance-selling regs apply to auctions?
- Do (should?) auction houses have any liability for what they write about the consigned vehicles?
- Is there ANY comeback for a buyer if they find themselves in such a position? Or is it just 'caveat emptor', and never-ever remote bid without someone trusted having eyeballed the car...
"The catalogue will describe the lots to the best of our ability on information supplied. You should, however, satisfy yourself as to the condition, age, and integrity of any lot prior to bidding as no warranties whatsoever are given in relation to any lot."
So what happens when the catalogue write-up is pure* bobbins?
This is purely academic for me - I didn't bid on it, let alone buy it, but I'm just wondering about the potential poor sap who's facing a ~£3k+ bill to return the car to the described condition...
* In this case in relation to bodywork.
So what happens when the catalogue write-up is pure* bobbins?
This is purely academic for me - I didn't bid on it, let alone buy it, but I'm just wondering about the potential poor sap who's facing a ~£3k+ bill to return the car to the described condition...
* In this case in relation to bodywork.
UK auction Steve - their website advertises "x out of 5" star ratings for >20 different categories.
I've since discovered that the star ratings are provided by the vendor, not the auction house (who just publish them un-validated). But there's nothing to SAY that the ratings aren't done by the auction house, it was only a chance conversation that unearthed that.
I've since discovered that the star ratings are provided by the vendor, not the auction house (who just publish them un-validated). But there's nothing to SAY that the ratings aren't done by the auction house, it was only a chance conversation that unearthed that.
I don't think the distance selling aspect applies at auction as there is deemed to be the opportunity to view the items before the sale unlike Ebay etc.
That is what i was informed by the auctioneer at an antiques sale when the "mid seventeenth century, trumpet based candle stick" I bid for an one remotely arrived to be nothing more than a mid 20th century replica. Still the lot did include a genuine late 17th century Heemskirk candlestick which was not catalogued so not all bad then.
Regards
That is what i was informed by the auctioneer at an antiques sale when the "mid seventeenth century, trumpet based candle stick" I bid for an one remotely arrived to be nothing more than a mid 20th century replica. Still the lot did include a genuine late 17th century Heemskirk candlestick which was not catalogued so not all bad then.
Regards
SantaBarbara said:
Was there a photo of the car on the Auction web site?
Yes, but clearly taken elsewhere, so no guarantee that it was a current/accurate reflection of the car...doesn't look like it...Medieval - I think you may be right, but equally someone SHOULD be responsible for the accuracy of the information / photos provided, surely?!? Otherwise you can pass any old muck off as brass...
Never bought a car at auction but have bought a lot of furniture. Never believe what is written in the catalogue, quite often it is simply and utterly wrong. This can work to the buyers advantage of course!
Once paid £50 for a sideboard that the auctioneer had misdescribed, it's worth at least 2K.
Once paid £50 for a sideboard that the auctioneer had misdescribed, it's worth at least 2K.
SantaBarbara said:
Boosted LS1 said:
Distance selling regs have been replaced. I'm fairly sure the new regulatations cover auctions to.
I very much doubt ithavoc said:
Medieval - I think you may be right, but equally someone SHOULD be responsible for the accuracy of the information / photos provided, surely?!?
The age of a photo is tangible. But we all know how easy it is to polish a turd in a picture. Any information describing condition really is purely opinion.Frankly, anybody bidding blind deserves what they get...
Red Devil said:
SantaBarbara said:
Boosted LS1 said:
Distance selling regs have been replaced. I'm fairly sure the new regulatations cover auctions to.
I very much doubt it
...and they suggest what 2CVs' opined above - you're a fool if you don't go and look in-person...
...which I genuinely get, but this is a lovely big 'get out of jail free' card for anyone selling a turd at auction and wishing to cover it in a lot of (written but non-binding) glitter first...
havoc said:
"The catalogue will describe the lots to the best of our ability on information supplied. You should, however, satisfy yourself as to the condition, age, and integrity of any lot prior to bidding as no warranties whatsoever are given in relation to any lot."
So what happens when the catalogue write-up is pure* bobbins?..........
Which part of:So what happens when the catalogue write-up is pure* bobbins?..........
"You should, however, satisfy yourself as to the condition, age, and integrity of any lot prior to bidding as no warranties whatsoever are given in relation to any lot."
.........did you not understand?
TooMany2cvs said:
havoc said:
but this is a lovely big 'get out of jail free' card for anyone selling a turd at auction and wishing to cover it in a lot of (written but non-binding) glitter first...
Not really.After all, anybody with any sense will have a look, then won't bid.
Auctions/markets have had different rules since medieval times. Anyone with their wits about them knew this.
Indeed until 1995 when 'Market overt' (fr. Marché ouvert) was abolished you could sell stolen goods in designated markets between sunrise and sunset and the buyer would acquire good title.
Bermondsey was notorious for stolen art. In the early 1990s a Gainsborough and a Reynolds, nicked from the walls of Lincoln's Inn Hall, each sold there for less than £100.
That loophole has long gone, but it's still a case of looking over what you're bidding on. It's not a playing field for amateurs
Red Devil said:
TooMany2cvs said:
havoc said:
but this is a lovely big 'get out of jail free' card for anyone selling a turd at auction and wishing to cover it in a lot of (written but non-binding) glitter first...
Not really.After all, anybody with any sense will have a look, then won't bid.
Auctions/markets have had different rules since medieval times. Anyone with their wits about them knew this.
Indeed until 1995 when 'Market overt' (fr. Marché ouvert) was abolished you could sell stolen goods in designated markets between sunrise and sunset and the buyer would acquire good title.
Bermondsey was notorious for stolen art. In the early 1990s a Gainsborough and a Reynolds, nicked from the walls of Lincoln's Inn Hall, each sold there for less than £100.
That loophole has long gone, but it's still a case of looking over what you're bidding on. It's not a playing field for amateurs
I'm not (entirely) disagreeing, but it does surprise me, given how tight most consumer legislation is getting, that something like this is permitted carte-blanche, where the unsuspecting mark can be sold an utter pup and have to suck it up when they discover the truth...
(...and especially now with the classic car market in overdrive and every mug and his dog thinking it's a good thing to get into)
The classic car market is a bigger minefield than most.
Google Stanley Mann and the Bentley Speed Six!
And then there is the spat over Jaguar D-Type XKD604...
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Google Stanley Mann and the Bentley Speed Six!
And then there is the spat over Jaguar D-Type XKD604...
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
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