Buying from a Broker Car registered to them for 3 Months
Discussion
If buying new car from a Broker. The Car has to be registered to them for 3 Months. Purchaser is aware and would eventually be 2nd Registered Keeper.
As long as the insurance company is told and the road tax is paid - is there anything else to be concerned about.
Drive the Deal has a article saying you are contravening 43c of Vehicle Excise and Registration.
Saying it is an offence to drive and keep a car not registered to you - sure this happens all the time with Lease cars and company cars.
Interested to hear what your thoughts are.
As long as the insurance company is told and the road tax is paid - is there anything else to be concerned about.
Drive the Deal has a article saying you are contravening 43c of Vehicle Excise and Registration.
Saying it is an offence to drive and keep a car not registered to you - sure this happens all the time with Lease cars and company cars.
Interested to hear what your thoughts are.
What I'm trying to clarify is that I would take delivery off the car and start to drive it but the Broker would still have it registered to them for the first 3 months of my ownership?
Insurance have said this is not a problem, but reading Drive the Deals (pre registered cars article) website it makes me feel like i will be arrested and locked up!!
i feel they are scare mongering.
Insurance have said this is not a problem, but reading Drive the Deals (pre registered cars article) website it makes me feel like i will be arrested and locked up!!
i feel they are scare mongering.
TooMany2cvs said:
solo2 said:
As grumpy said above, it's the law that dealers/traders have to retain a car registered to them for a minimum of 90 days.
It's not "the law". It may be a term of the contract they have with the manufacturer or dealer, in order to get the discount they passed on to you.Open debate around who is the registered keeper?
KevinCamaroSS said:
TooMany2cvs said:
solo2 said:
As grumpy said above, it's the law that dealers/traders have to retain a car registered to them for a minimum of 90 days.
It's not "the law". It may be a term of the contract they have with the manufacturer or dealer, in order to get the discount they passed on to you.Open debate around who is the registered keeper?
KevinCamaroSS said:
Maybe not. But, under 43C it is an offence not to update the register with the correct keeper details. Therefore the offence would be complete if you were the 'owner' of the car without updating the V5C to correctly show you as the keeper.
Open debate around who is the registered keeper?
Eh? I had a company car a few years ago on one of those clever deals that dodged company car tax. I was never the registered keeper on the V5, but was effectively the keeper and owner as the loan for the car was in my name, albeit interest free and only to be paid when the car was returned by my employer for me. Open debate around who is the registered keeper?
KevinCamaroSS said:
TooMany2cvs said:
solo2 said:
As grumpy said above, it's the law that dealers/traders have to retain a car registered to them for a minimum of 90 days.
It's not "the law". It may be a term of the contract they have with the manufacturer or dealer, in order to get the discount they passed on to you.Open debate around who is the registered keeper?
KevinCamaroSS said:
Maybe not. But under 43C it is an offence not to update the register with the correct keeper details. Therefore the offence would be complete if you were the 'owner' of the car without updating the V5C to correctly show you as the keeper.
Open debate around who is the registered keeper?
What if you are the keeper but not the owner? Open debate around who is the registered keeper?
There must be hundreds of thousands of company cars with the company's address on the registration document.
So how can this be the case (taken from drive the deal website) - it must of been a private prosecution??
(ii) A broker arranges for you to purchase a car from a dealer, and the dealer delivers you the car. But instead of registering your car to you, the car is registered to a company that has nothing to do with you, so that the broker can claim a fleet bonus from the manufacturer. These cars are not usually re-registered to you for 3-6 months. Note that a car registered to you “Care of” an unrelated company is not registered to you, it is registered to the unrelated company. You should always avoid these as you could be committing a criminal offence, end up being prosecuted, get a criminal record and lose money which exceeds the value of the initial saving. We never supply cars using this practice.
WHAT HAVE THE COURTS RULED?
We recently prosecuted a competitor of ours for offering to sell their customers pre-registered cars using route (ii) above and failing to warn their customers of the risk of them being criminal prosecuted and the insurance and other financial disadvantages.
The Court ruled that it is an offence for someone to keep and drive a car that is not registered to them. Our competitor then pleaded guilty to the offence we charged them with and their company now has a criminal record.
(ii) A broker arranges for you to purchase a car from a dealer, and the dealer delivers you the car. But instead of registering your car to you, the car is registered to a company that has nothing to do with you, so that the broker can claim a fleet bonus from the manufacturer. These cars are not usually re-registered to you for 3-6 months. Note that a car registered to you “Care of” an unrelated company is not registered to you, it is registered to the unrelated company. You should always avoid these as you could be committing a criminal offence, end up being prosecuted, get a criminal record and lose money which exceeds the value of the initial saving. We never supply cars using this practice.
WHAT HAVE THE COURTS RULED?
We recently prosecuted a competitor of ours for offering to sell their customers pre-registered cars using route (ii) above and failing to warn their customers of the risk of them being criminal prosecuted and the insurance and other financial disadvantages.
The Court ruled that it is an offence for someone to keep and drive a car that is not registered to them. Our competitor then pleaded guilty to the offence we charged them with and their company now has a criminal record.
Gibo993 said:
So how can this be the case (taken from drive the deal website) - it must of been a private prosecution??
(ii) A broker arranges for you to purchase a car from a dealer, and the dealer delivers you the car. But instead of registering your car to you, the car is registered to a company that has nothing to do with you, so that the broker can claim a fleet bonus from the manufacturer. These cars are not usually re-registered to you for 3-6 months. Note that a car registered to you “Care of” an unrelated company is not registered to you, it is registered to the unrelated company. You should always avoid these as you could be committing a criminal offence, end up being prosecuted, get a criminal record and lose money which exceeds the value of the initial saving. We never supply cars using this practice.
WHAT HAVE THE COURTS RULED?
We recently prosecuted a competitor of ours for offering to sell their customers pre-registered cars using route (ii) above and failing to warn their customers of the risk of them being criminal prosecuted and the insurance and other financial disadvantages.
The Court ruled that it is an offence for someone to keep and drive a car that is not registered to them. Our competitor then pleaded guilty to the offence we charged them with and their company now has a criminal record.
Who prosecuted them? Drive the Deal? Now that’s one multiskilled company. (ii) A broker arranges for you to purchase a car from a dealer, and the dealer delivers you the car. But instead of registering your car to you, the car is registered to a company that has nothing to do with you, so that the broker can claim a fleet bonus from the manufacturer. These cars are not usually re-registered to you for 3-6 months. Note that a car registered to you “Care of” an unrelated company is not registered to you, it is registered to the unrelated company. You should always avoid these as you could be committing a criminal offence, end up being prosecuted, get a criminal record and lose money which exceeds the value of the initial saving. We never supply cars using this practice.
WHAT HAVE THE COURTS RULED?
We recently prosecuted a competitor of ours for offering to sell their customers pre-registered cars using route (ii) above and failing to warn their customers of the risk of them being criminal prosecuted and the insurance and other financial disadvantages.
The Court ruled that it is an offence for someone to keep and drive a car that is not registered to them. Our competitor then pleaded guilty to the offence we charged them with and their company now has a criminal record.
Any interested party can have a read https://www.scribd.com/doc/100406478/Derby-Crown-C...
This is one of my specialist subjects.... and yes, refer to Regina (House of Cars) v Derby Car and Van Contracts Ltd for a bit of bedtime reading on the pitfalls of such an arrangement.
A word to the wise though. Can you get to see the V5 before you hand over the cash? Are you sure the person you hand over the cash to has Title of Ownership on the vehicle?
Are you sure that it is not a rental vehicle that is being sold to you, and in 3 months when you chase the V5, the broker has vanished, and you get some fellow PHer ringing up to give you the bad news that you don't own the vehicle that you've paid for in good faith?
Because I have been making a few of those calls recently, and it's not a pleasant task....
That said, some fleet discount terms do have retention periods of between 3 and 12 months where a keeper change is not permitted. These vehicles are usually supplied for a specific purpose, so if a broker is offering you one, it may be worth checking with the manufacturer that the terms are valid for resale.
If you want me to check the reg or VIN, email me through my profile.
A word to the wise though. Can you get to see the V5 before you hand over the cash? Are you sure the person you hand over the cash to has Title of Ownership on the vehicle?
Are you sure that it is not a rental vehicle that is being sold to you, and in 3 months when you chase the V5, the broker has vanished, and you get some fellow PHer ringing up to give you the bad news that you don't own the vehicle that you've paid for in good faith?
Because I have been making a few of those calls recently, and it's not a pleasant task....
That said, some fleet discount terms do have retention periods of between 3 and 12 months where a keeper change is not permitted. These vehicles are usually supplied for a specific purpose, so if a broker is offering you one, it may be worth checking with the manufacturer that the terms are valid for resale.
If you want me to check the reg or VIN, email me through my profile.
Magic919 said:
Any interested party can have a read https://www.scribd.com/doc/100406478/Derby-Crown-C...
The only thing I can see in there is that they were found guilty of not warning people that there’s a risk. If they start warning people, then that’s this covered off. The bit around the Excise side seems to have been brushed aside, as it’s common practice. Obviously IANAL so could be missing something. Seems like Drive the Deal can’t get fleet discounts and got wound up by it.
S11Steve said:
This is one of my specialist subjects.... and yes, refer to Regina (House of Cars) v Derby Car and Van Contracts Ltd for a bit of bedtime reading on the pitfalls of such an arrangement.
A word to the wise though. Can you get to see the V5 before you hand over the cash? Are you sure the person you hand over the cash to has Title of Ownership on the vehicle?
Are you sure that it is not a rental vehicle that is being sold to you, and in 3 months when you chase the V5, the broker has vanished, and you get some fellow PHer ringing up to give you the bad news that you don't own the vehicle that you've paid for in good faith?
Because I have been making a few of those calls recently, and it's not a pleasant task....
That said, some fleet discount terms do have retention periods of between 3 and 12 months where a keeper change is not permitted. These vehicles are usually supplied for a specific purpose, so if a broker is offering you one, it may be worth checking with the manufacturer that the terms are valid for resale.
If you want me to check the reg or VIN, email me through my profile.
Its a well known broker who has been in business for quite some time and I know of people who have received cars from them with no issue.A word to the wise though. Can you get to see the V5 before you hand over the cash? Are you sure the person you hand over the cash to has Title of Ownership on the vehicle?
Are you sure that it is not a rental vehicle that is being sold to you, and in 3 months when you chase the V5, the broker has vanished, and you get some fellow PHer ringing up to give you the bad news that you don't own the vehicle that you've paid for in good faith?
Because I have been making a few of those calls recently, and it's not a pleasant task....
That said, some fleet discount terms do have retention periods of between 3 and 12 months where a keeper change is not permitted. These vehicles are usually supplied for a specific purpose, so if a broker is offering you one, it may be worth checking with the manufacturer that the terms are valid for resale.
If you want me to check the reg or VIN, email me through my profile.
If you are clear to your insurance company that it is registered to the broker and they have said that is acceptable.
Fair enough if you are confident about it.
Some of the vehicles I have had to repo were bought from a company with a 20 year presence, large premises and workshops, and part of an international car rental franchise.
They have phoenixed the business, for the 4th or 5th time, and are still trading at the same site with the same staff.
Which is either very brave or very stupid.
Some of the vehicles I have had to repo were bought from a company with a 20 year presence, large premises and workshops, and part of an international car rental franchise.
They have phoenixed the business, for the 4th or 5th time, and are still trading at the same site with the same staff.
Which is either very brave or very stupid.
S11Steve said:
Fair enough if you are confident about it.
Some of the vehicles I have had to repo were bought from a company with a 20 year presence, large premises and workshops, and part of an international car rental franchise.
They have phoenixed the business, for the 4th or 5th time, and are still trading at the same site with the same staff.
Which is either very brave or very stupid.
and the car is being ordered from factory to a very specific specification so no possibility of it being a rental. still I'm wondering if its worth the risk but it is a very good discountSome of the vehicles I have had to repo were bought from a company with a 20 year presence, large premises and workshops, and part of an international car rental franchise.
They have phoenixed the business, for the 4th or 5th time, and are still trading at the same site with the same staff.
Which is either very brave or very stupid.
The team of 9 people I'm sat with right now are all processing factory orders for rental & leasing fleets. We've just approved a RR LWB Autobiography SC, and with all the extras, it comes to £102k after the fleet discount...
Rental isn't just the steel-wheeled, non-aircon Focus that you pick up at an airport - a lot of the fleets are supplying long term deals, without the obligations of contract hire, so factory orders are very common.
We know there is leakage and we know there is fraud that we have to manage and resolve. I've got a list of over 100 Peugeots that I'm working through at the moment to identify issues, hence why I'm with the orders team to see what was specced and where they were delivered to.
Just be careful - speak to the manufacturer before you part with your cash to ensure that they are supplying it to your dealer/broker. If the broker tells you not to speak to the, be even more cautious. Brokers do get volume discount deals, but V5 retention periods should always be questioned.
Rental isn't just the steel-wheeled, non-aircon Focus that you pick up at an airport - a lot of the fleets are supplying long term deals, without the obligations of contract hire, so factory orders are very common.
We know there is leakage and we know there is fraud that we have to manage and resolve. I've got a list of over 100 Peugeots that I'm working through at the moment to identify issues, hence why I'm with the orders team to see what was specced and where they were delivered to.
Just be careful - speak to the manufacturer before you part with your cash to ensure that they are supplying it to your dealer/broker. If the broker tells you not to speak to the, be even more cautious. Brokers do get volume discount deals, but V5 retention periods should always be questioned.
KungFuPanda said:
KevinCamaroSS said:
TooMany2cvs said:
solo2 said:
As grumpy said above, it's the law that dealers/traders have to retain a car registered to them for a minimum of 90 days.
It's not "the law". It may be a term of the contract they have with the manufacturer or dealer, in order to get the discount they passed on to you.Open debate around who is the registered keeper?
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