Discussion
Ost19 said:
Hi guys
I have a question about box junctions; what evidence is required to be prosecuted for a box junction offence?
Video is usually the best evidence, and that is usually what councils use. The contravention has two elements, entering and stopping, so the video is usually considered necessary to show that the vehicle indeed stopped in the box (as entering without stopping is not a contravention).I have a question about box junctions; what evidence is required to be prosecuted for a box junction offence?
covboy said:
Mikeyjae said:
I was pretty sure as long as your exit is clear you can enter and stop. So evidence for prosecution would need to be sure the exit was not clear.
If you are turning right Why would you want to stop going straight on if your exit was clear ?
Ost19 said:
Hi guys
I have a question about box junctions; what evidence is required to be prosecuted for a box junction offence?
Highway code Rule 174.I have a question about box junctions; what evidence is required to be prosecuted for a box junction offence?
"Box junctions. These have criss-cross yellow lines painted on the road (see ‘Road markings’). You MUST NOT enter the box until your exit road or lane is clear. However, you may enter the box and wait when you want to turn right, and are only stopped from doing so by oncoming traffic, or by other vehicles waiting to turn right. At signalled roundabouts you MUST NOT enter the box unless you can cross over it completely without stopping.
Law TSRGD regs 10(1) & 29(2)"
Evidence is usually that your vehicle was stationary in the box unless you were waiting to turn right.
Full version here:
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2002/3113/conte...
Edited by paintman on Sunday 3rd December 22:01
covboy said:
Mikeyjae said:
I was pretty sure as long as your exit is clear you can enter and stop. So evidence for prosecution would need to be sure the exit was not clear.
If you are turning right Why would you want to stop going straight on if your exit was clear ?
Sadly not enough - I visit my mother every week in the London Borough of Sutton.
At the end of her road is a box junction - once in 20 times I might get someone let me turn when they are going nowhere except into the box!
Mind you I can relate to their feeling that every metre of progress is a small victory - driving over there is so miserable!
At the end of her road is a box junction - once in 20 times I might get someone let me turn when they are going nowhere except into the box!
Mind you I can relate to their feeling that every metre of progress is a small victory - driving over there is so miserable!
speedking31 said:
covboy said:
Mikeyjae said:
I was pretty sure as long as your exit is clear you can enter and stop. So evidence for prosecution would need to be sure the exit was not clear.
If you are turning right Why would you want to stop going straight on if your exit was clear ?
paintman said:
Ost19 said:
Hi guys
I have a question about box junctions; what evidence is required to be prosecuted for a box junction offence?
Highway code Rule 174.I have a question about box junctions; what evidence is required to be prosecuted for a box junction offence?
"Box junctions. These have criss-cross yellow lines painted on the road (see ‘Road markings’). You MUST NOT enter the box until your exit road or lane is clear. However, you may enter the box and wait when you want to turn right, and are only stopped from doing so by oncoming traffic, or by other vehicles waiting to turn right. At signalled roundabouts you MUST NOT enter the box unless you can cross over it completely without stopping.
Law TSRGD regs 10(1) & 29(2)"
Evidence is usually that your vehicle was stationary in the box unless you were waiting to turn right.
Full version here:
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2002/3113/conte...
Btw, the words in bold above are nowhere to be found in Schedule 9 Part 7 Section 11 - http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2016/362/schedu...
The YBJ marking conveys the prohibition that a person must not cause a vehicle to enter the box junction so that the vehicle has to stop within the box junction due to the presence of stationary vehicles.
See below.
speedking31 said:
covboy said:
Mikeyjae said:
I was pretty sure as long as your exit is clear you can enter and stop. So evidence for prosecution would need to be sure the exit was not clear.
If you are turning right Why would you want to stop going straight on if your exit was clear ?
The review panel also said:
In our view the Regulation, describing as it does a consequence that a vehicle has to stop in the box due to the presence of stationary vehicles, does not thereby impose a necessity upon a driver that he must wait outside the box to see if traffic ahead will become stationary before he decides to enter.
They are saying (rightly imo) that the 'until' in HC174 is b
s.This one is fun in the morning-
https://goo.gl/maps/w7zZBBcSREt
There is a mini roundabout at the southern end of Tudor way which means traffic queues up to and past the box junction, there are also queues of cars up Fairway and St John's Rd waiting to turn south on Tudor Way. The length of the box means that as soon as a space opens at the box exit two or three cars try to fill it.
It is there so buses can turn right into St John's Road, apparently.
https://goo.gl/maps/w7zZBBcSREt
There is a mini roundabout at the southern end of Tudor way which means traffic queues up to and past the box junction, there are also queues of cars up Fairway and St John's Rd waiting to turn south on Tudor Way. The length of the box means that as soon as a space opens at the box exit two or three cars try to fill it.
It is there so buses can turn right into St John's Road, apparently.
Toltec said:
This one is fun in the morning-
https://goo.gl/maps/w7zZBBcSREt
There is a mini roundabout at the southern end of Tudor way which means traffic queues up to and past the box junction, there are also queues of cars up Fairway and St John's Rd waiting to turn south on Tudor Way. The length of the box means that as soon as a space opens at the box exit two or three cars try to fill it.
It is there so buses can turn right into St John's Road, apparently.
Very small world - used to be on Beaumont Road! https://goo.gl/maps/w7zZBBcSREt
There is a mini roundabout at the southern end of Tudor way which means traffic queues up to and past the box junction, there are also queues of cars up Fairway and St John's Rd waiting to turn south on Tudor Way. The length of the box means that as soon as a space opens at the box exit two or three cars try to fill it.
It is there so buses can turn right into St John's Road, apparently.
kiethton said:
Toltec said:
This one is fun in the morning-
https://goo.gl/maps/w7zZBBcSREt
There is a mini roundabout at the southern end of Tudor way which means traffic queues up to and past the box junction, there are also queues of cars up Fairway and St John's Rd waiting to turn south on Tudor Way. The length of the box means that as soon as a space opens at the box exit two or three cars try to fill it.
It is there so buses can turn right into St John's Road, apparently.
Very small world - used to be on Beaumont Road! https://goo.gl/maps/w7zZBBcSREt
There is a mini roundabout at the southern end of Tudor way which means traffic queues up to and past the box junction, there are also queues of cars up Fairway and St John's Rd waiting to turn south on Tudor Way. The length of the box means that as soon as a space opens at the box exit two or three cars try to fill it.
It is there so buses can turn right into St John's Road, apparently.
I used to drive along Willett Way/Tudor Way to work Mon-Fri.
Depending on what time I finished I would often use St John's Road on the way back.
It avoided the horrendous tailback at the Tudor Way/Willet Way/Petts Wood Road junction.
There was no box junction at St John's Road back then.
It relied on people being sensible in order to be able to make the right turn.
I'm not surprised a YBJ was put in tbh.
More and more people seem to be blessed with only one functioning brain cell.
catman said:
Why not try that and let us know how you get on. The penalty is for stopping in the box junction.
Tim
But from aboveTim
The YBJ marking conveys the prohibition that a person must not cause a vehicle to enter the box junction so that the vehicle has to stop within the box junction due to the presence of stationary vehicles.
My bold.
I must say I had the same thought as speedking31.
I know the Council wouldn't see it that way - but it should be an easy win.
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