Kids allergies at school, clubs, etc.

[trumptriple]

Not sure where to post this, but I’m after a bit of advice. My son is half Spanish and attends a weekly Spanish class, which is run by the Spanish Ministry of Education, in various locations in the UK. It is free to attend and is just one and a half hours per week, learning Spanish, playing games, etc.

He has allergies to lots of different nuts and eggs, proper allergies that make him sick and require him to carry an Epi Pen (although we’ve never had to use it). At school (and at breakfast club, sports clubs, etc.) you have to fill in a form and leave an Epi Pen with them, in case of emergency. But at Spanish the class leader has said that one of us will have to attend the class each week with him, in case the Epi Pen needs administering! We cannot do this as we both work.

So my question is, do they have a duty of care to ensure staff can deal with these situations? Or will different rules apply as it’s run by the Spanish government? Or is it up to them to set the rules? Keep in mind that he is there to learn, not to have dinner or anything like that. Surely they can't kick him out because he has an allergy?

[SiH]

While I agree with you that it's a shame the school won't take responsibility for administering the EpiPen if required I can also understand it from their point of view. If they've taken reasonable steps to prevent exposure to the triggers (such as not allowing children to bring in nuts) then it's up to you to decide how you proceed after that.
And they haven't kicked your child out (unless they have), you've chosen to remove your child from the lessons. There's a difference.

[jesta1865]

the people running the classes may not have had the required training to deal with the epi pen or allergies concerned.

as they are not a proper school I suspect that they are not required to like a normal school would be.

[mgv8]

If it is not seen as part of the normal school (its a club), then no they do not have to provide someone. I know from club side but not school side.

[anothernameitist]

Their duty of care is to minimise risk, for all.

Therefore their decision is to have you there to administer the Epi pen.

Sorry about that, kit's the way they have gone.

You say they need you or your wife there, can another person act as the responsible person?
Thanks

[anonymous-user]

Do they have a duty of care to ensure staff can deal with these situations?

No. They are choosing not to accept such a duty by requiring family presence.

Or will different rules apply as it’s run by the Spanish government?

No.

Or is it up to them to set the rules?

Yes.

[trumptriple]

Yes I can see both sides of the argument too. Duty of care to minimise risk to all, that makes sense.

The adult that attends needs to be someone who can administer the Epi Pen, not necessarily a parent. No he’s not been kicked out, but it makes it virtually impossible for us to continue. Seem ridiculous that a language club should be brought to a halt by food allergies.

Thanks everyone for the replies.

[anonymous-user]

If you wanted to be a git you could try claiming that the school is failing to make a reasonable adjustment for a disabled child but I doubt that you would succeed against a small outfit offering a free service.

[SiH]

Breadvan72 said:

If you wanted to be a git you could try claiming that the school is failing to make a reasonable adjustment for a disabled child but I doubt that you would succeed against a small outfit offering a free service.

I'm not sure I'd call the Spanish Government a 'small outfit' but try asking the Catalans how they got on when they took on Madrid. Let's hope if you go down the route that BV proposes the Spanish don't send in the heavies like they did in Barcelona!

[anonymous-user]

Some people here need to take a pill and lie down. This is about a small free language club. The right wing ranting about the poor oppressed Catalans is in NPE.

[SiH]

Breadvan72 said:

Some people here need to take a pill and lie down. This is about a small free language club. The right wing ranting about the poor oppressed Catalans is in NPE.

My tongue was very much in my cheek with my previous comment.
But a lie down would be nice though...

[The Surveyor]

trumptriple said:

Yes I can see both sides of the argument too. Duty of care to minimise risk to all, that makes sense.

The adult that attends needs to be someone who can administer the Epi Pen, not necessarily a parent. No he’s not been kicked out, but it makes it virtually impossible for us to continue. Seem ridiculous that a language club should be brought to a halt by food allergies.

Thanks everyone for the replies.

My daughter has had allergies to nuts, and diary (including eggs) for her whole school life, she needs to carry an Epi-pen as well as anti-histamine but I've always considered any risk remains totally ours to manage. Yes, we hope that the schools and now collage / work take a sensible approach to this, but ultimately the responsibility for her medication and the exposure to risk comes down to us.

Going forward, there will be many more occasions where you need to evaluate whether you are comfortable with the exposure risk and make the call, it depends upon what they're doing, the potential for exposure to the triggers, and just how sensible your child is. As they get older, you can trust them more, and you will also relax and not worry quite as much but it's best not to expect teachers or other parents to take on that responsibility regardless of what rules there are, or we think there should be.

Also, as the food allergy isn't severe (most likely outcome being sickness / hives if the epi-pen has never been needed) then I wouldn't consider it as a 'disability', more of a dietary requirement. IMHO.

[williaa68]

How old is your son? As Surveyor notes, the older they get the easier it becomes. My daughter has only had to use her epi-pen once while out and about as the usual piriton dose she takes if she feels something amiss (usually cross contamination of some sort) didnt seem to be working but that was fairly traumatic for all concerned. Unless he is very young he should know how to use one himself and not necessarily rely on others who might have done a course but arent living with the problem day to day. Epi-pens expire fairly quickly and the auto-injector nature of them is odd if you arent used to it - you never see a needle, you just get a click (and an "ow"!) - so you might want to practice with an expired one (on something inert like a leg of lamb) or you can get "training" epi-pens from a friendly pharmacy. Whatever, watch the training videos and, ideally, you should carry two not one. Once you realise there isnt a syringe and there really isnt anything to do other than push it against the thigh it is easy but the first time when you are hyper-stressed it is scary. If you ever do use one, you need to call 999 and be prepared for a spell in A&E - it can take a while for the heart rate etc to return to normal.

Having a kid at risk of anaphalaxis is scary and can be a bit limiting (no holidays to Thailand...) but it gets easier and the drugs do work. Just make sure they are ALWAYS available.

[drfrank]

It is a little sad that the club is not prepared to take any responsibility for the emergency administration of an epi-pen but unfortunately completely understandable. It is a sign of the litigious world we live in. Incorrect administration, delayed administration by untrained staff could have serious consequences and as such many clubs (or similar) are simply not prepared to shoulder that risk, for fear of reprisals should there be an issue.

[The Surveyor]

drfrank said:

It is a little sad that the club is not prepared to take any responsibility for the emergency administration of an epi-pen but unfortunately completely understandable. It is a sign of the litigious world we live in. Incorrect administration, delayed administration by untrained staff could have serious consequences and as such many clubs (or similar) are simply not prepared to shoulder that risk, for fear of reprisals should there be an issue.

It is sad, but it will be driven by that fear as you say and that will be backed up by their insurers who won't allow them to take on such additional risks. Also remember, for the staff, this is a work environment and it's unfair to ask them to personally take on such additional responsibilities, responsibilities they're not getting paid for or have any insurance backing.

[trumptriple]

Thanks everyone. My son is only 7 years old and he's very sensible about knowing what he can and cannot eat. But still too young to trust if somebody brought in birthday chocolates, etc. At school they get around this by making the kids hand out birthday sweets at home time, when parents/carers are collecting their children.

We have a practice EpiPen and I have played with it. The nurse told us she had heard of a mum injecting herself in the thigh when her daughter needed it! As you are taught to practice against your own thigh to get used to the pressure needed :-) Hopefully we will never have to use it.

Still trying to find out if the school have WiFi I can use to work from there.

[pavarotti1980]

trumptriple said:

Not sure where to post this, but I’m after a bit of advice. My son is half Spanish and attends a weekly Spanish class, which is run by the Spanish Ministry of Education, in various locations in the UK. It is free to attend and is just one and a half hours per week, learning Spanish, playing games, etc.

He has allergies to lots of different nuts and eggs, proper allergies that make him sick and require him to carry an Epi Pen (although we’ve never had to use it). At school (and at breakfast club, sports clubs, etc.) you have to fill in a form and leave an Epi Pen with them, in case of emergency. But at Spanish the class leader has said that one of us will have to attend the class each week with him, in case the Epi Pen needs administering! We cannot do this as we both work.

So my question is, do they have a duty of care to ensure staff can deal with these situations? Or will different rules apply as it’s run by the Spanish government? Or is it up to them to set the rules? Keep in mind that he is there to learn, not to have dinner or anything like that. Surely they can't kick him out because he has an allergy?

Just out of interest do they require parent attendance for other children with other conditions such as asthma, diabetes etc on the basis they may need "when required" administration of medicines.

[Ed/L152]

Looking at the website for epipens, I can't see how 1) they could make it any easier to use, 2) or how someone couldn't feel capable of using it after looking at those instructions for about 30 seconds.

It's literally 1) remove cap 2) swing the correct end against the thigh 3) well done you've saved someone's life. All it would take is for the class leader to look at the instructions for 30 seconds.

Are these people really so dumb, or are they intentionally playing dumb?

Honestly I have no understanding of the thinking behind the refusal.

Edit: shouldn't they have a first aider attending, anyway?

Edited by Ed/L152 on Thursday 7th December 13:56

[Mave]

Ed/L152 said:

Looking at the website for epipens, I can't see how 1) they could make it any easier to use, 2) or how someone couldn't feel capable of using it after looking at those instructions for about 30 seconds.

It's literally 1) remove cap 2) swing the correct end against the thigh 3) well done you've saved someone's life. All it would take is for the class leader to look at the instructions for 30 seconds.

Are these people really so dumb, or are they intentionally playing dumb?

Honestly I have no understanding of the thinking behind the refusal.

Edit: shouldn't they have a first aider attending, anyway?

Edited by Ed/L152 on Thursday 7th December 13:56

It's not as easy as just using the epi-pen though is it? You can't just go around using an epi-pen on people just because it's easy to do so! First aiders aren't generally allowed to administer medicine, only to help people administer their own. You can administer an epi-pen in a life saving situation, but that means being able to spot the stage at which a reaction has actually become life threatening. First aid at work training in my experience is aimed primarily at trauma type accidents and CPR. Medical emergencies tend to be trained as second aid ie send off to A&E / GP rather than treat by first aider.

[stevep944]

Presumably this club is outside normal school hours. As a parent I'm amazed that neither you or your wife can spare 90 minutes a week to look after your son if you consider his Spanish class so important. Surely one of you can start or leave work early.