Test driving a trader's car with no MOT

[Patrick Bateman]

Seem to find conflicting things about this. What's the latest on doing this?

Assuming it is breaking the law, is it fully on the trader alone?

[TooMany2cvs]

There's no points, if that's what you're worried about. The fine's pretty trivial.

That's assuming it's roadworthy, just doesn't have a ticket. If it's unroadworthy, then anything comes onto the driver - but that'd apply even with a ticket.

[Patrick Bateman]

Even in Scotland?

[TooMany2cvs]

No difference in Scotland.

[4rephill]

It's the driver's responsibility to ensure that any vehicle they drive on the public highway is fully legal, so any fine for test driving a trader's car without a valid MOT would be on the driver and not the trader.

Normally dealt with by FPN: £100 fine/no points.

In the same way, if a trader/car dealer throws the trade plates on the dashboard and rear parcel shelf, and the buyer gets stopped by the Police whilst test driving the car, it's the driver who actually commits the offence of driving a vehicle without the required registration plates being displayed correctly, not the knob in the passenger's seat.

[Patrick Bateman]

This gets onto the next question. Why do traders let the MOT expire and not bother renewing it? Must put off some people.

[craigjm]

Patrick Bateman said:

This gets onto the next question. Why do traders let the MOT expire and not bother renewing it? Must put off some people.

So they can sell it with a full fresh ticket surely

[Patrick Bateman]

craigjm said:

So they can sell it with a full fresh ticket surely

And just not care about people test driving their cars with no MOT?

[Red 4]

4rephill said:

It's the driver's responsibility to ensure that any vehicle they drive on the public highway is fully legal, so any fine for test driving a trader's car without a valid MOT would be on the driver and not the trader.

Incorrect.

Trader would also be guilty of an offence.

Permitting - no MOT.

[grumpy52]

Also as a reminder Trade Plates do not cover for no MOT .
Many think it does .

[4rephill]

Red 4 said:

4rephill said:

It's the driver's responsibility to ensure that any vehicle they drive on the public highway is fully legal, so any fine for test driving a trader's car without a valid MOT would be on the driver and not the trader.

Incorrect.

Trader would also be guilty of an offence.

Permitting - no MOT.

It's not incorrect at all - The primary offence would be using a vehicle on a public highway without a valid MOT - Driver at fault.

The offence of permitting a vehicle to be used with no MOT would be a secondary offence - Trader at fault.

[Red 4]

4rephill said:

Red 4 said:

4rephill said:

It's the driver's responsibility to ensure that any vehicle they drive on the public highway is fully legal, so any fine for test driving a trader's car without a valid MOT would be on the driver and not the trader.

Incorrect.

Trader would also be guilty of an offence.

Permitting - no MOT.

It's not incorrect at all - The primary offence would be using a vehicle on a public highway without a valid MOT - Driver at fault.

The offence of permitting a vehicle to be used with no MOT would be a secondary offence - Trader at fault.

You were incorrect - you said a trader was not committing an offence and could not be fined.

You are wrong again - it's got nothing to do with "primary" or "secondary" offences.

The term is Use/ Cause/ Permit and is common to Construction and Use (and other) offences.

You are giving the OP bad advice and providing incorrect info.

[Yipper]

Know an indy car dealer a few weeks ago who took a customer out on a test drive. The customer (driver) got caught in a mobile speed camera doing ~37mph in a 30 zone. When they got back to the showroom, the customer said he was going to the toilet, but nipped round the back and ran off, never to be seen again. The mobile number he gave was never picked up. A short while later, the dealer got a letter saying he would get a ~£1000 fine if he could not name the driver. Of course, the customer left a full name and phone number, but no home address, and has since been untraceable.

Long story short -- the onus is, ultimately, on the *dealer* to provide the name and address of the driver on a test drive, if a law is broken.

[a.lex]

Yipper said:

Know an indy car dealer a few weeks ago who took a customer out on a test drive. The customer (driver) got caught in a mobile speed camera doing ~37mph in a 30 zone. When they got back to the showroom, the customer said he was going to the toilet, but nipped round the back and ran off, never to be seen again. The mobile number he gave was never picked up. A short while later, the dealer got a letter saying he would get a ~£1000 fine if he could not name the driver. Of course, the customer left a full name and phone number, but no home address, and has since been untraceable.

Long story short -- the onus is, ultimately, on the *dealer* to provide the name and address of the driver on a test drive, if a law is broken.

Well, the keeper has that obligation (under s.172 RTA 1988), of course, but that's not what this thread is about...

[Patrick Bateman]

I'm going to see a car tomorrow with an expired MOT so this is somewhat annoying. I'm certainly not buying anything without a drive from a trader so is playing daft the best option?

[MorganP104]

Patrick Bateman said:

I'm going to see a car tomorrow with an expired MOT so this is somewhat annoying. I'm certainly not buying anything without a drive from a trader so is playing daft the best option?

I think you'd be VERY unlucky to get pulled over whilst on a test drive, and even unluckier than that if the copper decides that he's doing you/the dealer for having no MoT.

Would I be right in thinking that you only know the car has no MoT because you looked it up online? If it's the car I think it is, the advert on Auto Trader says it has a full MoT. Obviously, we both know this means the dealer will put a fresh ticket on it upon sale.

If you have the facilities at home, print out a copy of the advert, and have it in your pocket when you view the car. That way, in the extremely unlikely event you do get tugged by the boys in blue on your test drive, you can whip the advert out, and do your best indignant "I drove this car in good faith!" act.

[Decky_Q]

I recently bought a car with no MOT, so I didn't get a proper test drive, just around a yard to see that it steered/braked straight and engine sounded good. Car was tested before collection and then on the drive home I realised it had a fooked engine mount. true story bro.