New remote fob - is it guaranteed?

[Simpo Two]

Hi all,

Six months ago I bought a s/h Jaguar from a well-known independent dealer. The car only came with one fob, which was a bit tatty, so I paid them £200 for a brand new fob and used it as the everyday one.

But every couple of months this fob lost range and failed. I sent it to a specilaist fob repair place who found excessive current drain; they tried resoldering but to no avail, and concluded the main ICU chip is the problem.

The fob isn't covered by the car warranty, so I asked the dealer if they would exchange it if I took the car to them. They say 'A new remote including programming would cost £154.75'.

I imagined that anything they sell new would have a 12 month guarantee just like any other new thing you buy (SOGA etc). Which of us is right please?

[mudster]

Both likely right.

Warranty is different to your statutory rights.

[TallPaul]

I would guess opening it up and resoldering would void any warranty anyway.

[elanfan]

Consumer Rights. Return it and give them the option to repair or replace. Use the old one until they get. Back to you which should be fairly promptly.

If they don't play ball then take it to their customer service line and on to the manufacturer. Ultimately you might need to small court them

[paintman]

elanfan said:

Consumer Rights. Return it and give them the option to repair or replace. Use the old one until they get. Back to you which should be fairly promptly.

If they don't play ball then take it to their customer service line and on to the manufacturer. Ultimately you might need to small court them

Assuming I'm not misunderstanding the OP's OP he's let another company take it apart & fiddle about with it including trying to re-solder it. Good Luck trying to get it replaced under warranty by Jaguar. "I'm sorry Sir, it appears to have been interfered with and has been broken" Should have taken it back untouched when the fault manifested.

Simpo Two said:

I paid them £200 for a brand new fob and used it as the everyday one.
But every couple of months this fob lost range and failed. I sent it to a specilaist fob repair place who found excessive current drain; they tried resoldering but to no avail, and concluded the main ICU chip is the problem.

Edited by paintman on Monday 18th December 20:43

[Simpo Two]

paintman said:

Assuming I'm not misunderstanding the OP's OP he's let another company take it apart & fiddle about with it including trying to re-solder it. Good Luck trying to get it replaced under warranty by Jaguar]

There are two fatal misunderstandings or failure on my part to dot every 'I':

1) the dealer, being a 2.5 hour drive away, suggested I send it to the specialist.

2) the warranty mentioned is a 6 month AA warranty on the car, not the fob. Nowt to do with Jaguar.

As clarified by the first reply, this is a consumer rights issue, I just have to explain it in words of one syllable to the dealer. If he really thinks he can sell me a brand new fob for £200 and then another one for £154 six months later because the first one was proven defective, we shall have a scuffle...

[Chester draws]

There's a change in things at the 6 month point.. Less than 6 months it is assumed to have been faulty at the time of purchase, more than 6 months and the consmer has to prove it is faulty.

Is it more or less than 6 months?

[Simpo Two]

Chester draws said:

There's a change in things at the 6 month point.. Less than 6 months it is assumed to have been faulty at the time of purchase, more than 6 months and the consmer has to prove it is faulty.

Is it more or less than 6 months?

The dealer was advised of the problem at about 5 months (when the fob died again despite having a new battery fitted). But either way I have a report from the company that tried to repair it as evidence it's faulty.

[Chester draws]

In that case, unless you've jumped into a swimming pool with the keys still in your pocket.... then I'd be expecting it to last longer than 5 months and think you should have a good chance of getting a new one from them.

[paintman]

Simpo Two said:

paintman said:

Assuming I'm not misunderstanding the OP's OP he's let another company take it apart & fiddle about with it including trying to re-solder it. Good Luck trying to get it replaced under warranty by Jaguar]

There are two fatal misunderstandings or failure on my part to dot every 'I':

1) the dealer, being a 2.5 hour drive away, suggested I send it to the specialist.

2) the warranty mentioned is a 6 month AA warranty on the car, not the fob. Nowt to do with Jaguar.

As clarified by the first reply, this is a consumer rights issue, I just have to explain it in words of one syllable to the dealer. If he really thinks he can sell me a brand new fob for £200 and then another one for £154 six months later because the first one was proven defective, we shall have a scuffle...

Not so much a failure to dot every 'i' as a total omission of a significant fact
Now we've cleared that up, hopefully you'll get a free replacement.

ETA Appears on what we now know that the item you bought was faulty, the fault manifesting after 30 days but within 6 months & CRA holds that a fault developing in the first 6 months is deemed present from the time of purchase unless the retailer can prove otherwise.
They have made an attempt to repair the item - through the repair company - in line with the legislation which has been unsuccessful.
You have the right to reject for a full refund which I'd suggest will be the original £200 as that's what you paid.
https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation...

Edited by paintman on Tuesday 19th December 11:41

[Simpo Two]

Thanks Paintman (and other respondents) - it's clarified my mind.

I wasn't sure about it because the used car business is more complex than others, and the dealer, being indy not Jaguar, may not roll over so easily.

I think my favoured route is to ask them to exchange the faulty fob for a new one (unprogrammed) and I'll see if I can find a local bod to program it. If anybody can recommend such a person in Essex/Suffolk please PM me

[Simpo Two]

Well it seems I've stumbled into a final gotcha.

This arrived from my local Jaguar dealer after they received proof of purchase:

'I have spoken to my parts manager and he has confirmed that if the transmitter is faulty we can and will replace it free of charge. However, we will need to carry out an investigation into what the fault may be which could not actually be the transmitter. In which case the labour time to diagnose would be chargeable (£102 Including VAT).'

Firstly, I know the fob is faulty because (1) the battery goes flat in two months (2) I've had it tested and proven.

However I probably can't reveal (2) as it would presumably void the warranty.

So even though I should get a free replacement, I'm knackered.

If anyone has any ways I can get out of this without it costing me more money I'd be delighted to see them! Surely I should just be able to hand the fob over, say 'It's defective' and get a new one FOC? Isn't that what warranties/consumer rights are for?

[vxr8mate]

Didn't you act on instruction when you took it to be tested?

[Simpo Two]

vxr8mate said:

Didn't you act on instruction when you took it to be tested?

The independent dealer said 'We would need the car to program the replacement remote, there is a company that advertise repairing these remotes I have not had a chance to try them yet, they are called the remote fob centre.'

They were good. They tested the fob for two weeks, found excessive current drain but were unable to repair it. They concluded the 'main ICU chip' was at fault.

So it was not actually instruction, but presented as an alternative to a day driving to and from the supplying dealer.


ETA: Clarified details with local Jag dealer - fob testing takes around 15 mins, £102 was worst case. If the fob is faulty I get a new one for free, if it's found to be OK - ie something wrong with the car (though we couldn't think what) - then I have to pay for the test. That seems fairer.

Edited by Simpo Two on Wednesday 20th December 13:59

[paintman]

Puts you back with original seller.
They sold you the fob & your contract is with them and not with Jaguar, see the link I posted:
Your rights under the Consumer Rights Act are against the retailer – the company that sold you the product – not the manufacturer, so you must take any claim to the retailer.
It was their suggestion that you took it to the repairer whose detail they gave you.
If they won't play then you may well have to see them in court.

Edited by paintman on Wednesday 20th December 14:24

[Simpo Two]

Well, I've sent them a nice e-mail asking politely for my money back, and explaining why. We shall see..

Thanks for the input - watch this space!

[speedking31]

£102 < £200. If it was £300 for the diagnosis it would be a more difficult decision

[Simpo Two]

Point is, I shouldn't have to pay anything...

Anyway, I asked the (indy) dealer to accept the fob back for the money I paid for it (£200).

indy dealer said:

If I had known that the smart key that is faulty was only six months old and that you had paid for it I would not have dreamt of suggesting that you send it away to be repaired, I thought that it was an old smart key and was trying to help you out.

Except - an earlier e-mail to them stated 'the new keyfob lost range over a few weeks until it wouldn't unlock the car'. Someone obviously didn't spot the word 'new'. He continues:

indy dealer said:

'As I was unaware of all the facts at the time you have now put us in a difficult position because through no fault of our own we may not be able to return it to Jaguar for a refund, in any case we would need to see your car with both keys to check it out ourselves.

I am unsure as to what you paid for as this was invoiced by the sales department and Paul is away from last night until the 5th January but the retails prices of the smart key are as follows:

Smart key £112.75
Key blade £122.22
Programming £42
Total £276.97

If you only paid £200 then we must have not charged for the programming and discounted the parts, if we were to refund you it would only be for the smart key at £112.75 less discount.

Well, they probably discounted the price because i'd just spend £19K with them. And my local Jaguar dealer can supply a new fob for £190, so I find the maths a distraction.

I have no desire to start a fight, indeed I'd be happy to buy another car from them, I just want the decent thing done.
I think I'm entitled to say 'too bad', £200 please - correct?

[paintman]

Do you have an invoice/other evidence showing you paid them £200 for the key?

[Simpo Two]

Slightly to my surprise I can't find it specifically. I have contract of sale showing 'net price £18,995, deposit paid £2,000, balance £16,995'. My bank statement shows the balance payment to be £17,210, so there was £215 extra paid. Not sure what the £15 was, but the new fob was definitely an extra cost. I can't recall ordering anything else, maybe the fob was £215!