Fines for not switching off engines at traffic lights
Discussion
Norwich City Council (very anti-car) has recently put up signs at some busy junctions in areas of high pollution asking drivers to switch off their engines when stopped at the traffic lights. Furthermore, they are considering implementing fines for those drivers that don't comply. Cars with engine stop/start systems apply certain rules before activating the stop/start (e.g. check engine temperature, battery charge level, etc.). A person manually turning the key does not have this information available. I'm not sure if they expect people to turn their engines off if they are only going to be stopped for a few seconds and I'm sure there are also situations when it would not be appropriate to do so. For example, when I switch off the ignition in my car but remain inside the alarm/immobiliser system will automatically activate and the restart procedure is not a simple key turn to restart. I can also envisage scenarios where a turbo is very hot and it could potentially damage the vehicle to turn the ignition off. Do you think such a system of fines could realistically be implemented?
Another council without a clue .
We had Canterbury doing emissions tests on cars in the city a few years ago and fining those that failed .
After various appeals and court cases they ended up returning all the money as the testing was seriously flawed .
It's time legislation was put in place to prevent all these half baked ideas being imposed by lunatic do gooders without a clue .
We had Canterbury doing emissions tests on cars in the city a few years ago and fining those that failed .
After various appeals and court cases they ended up returning all the money as the testing was seriously flawed .
It's time legislation was put in place to prevent all these half baked ideas being imposed by lunatic do gooders without a clue .
grumpy52 said:
Another council without a clue .
We had Canterbury doing emissions tests on cars in the city a few years ago and fining those that failed .
After various appeals and court cases they ended up returning all the money as the testing was seriously flawed .
It's time legislation was put in place to prevent all these half baked ideas being imposed by lunatic do gooders without a clue .
Personally I'm all for a clamp down on stinking black smoke belching diesels. There are loads which are clearly not running right.We had Canterbury doing emissions tests on cars in the city a few years ago and fining those that failed .
After various appeals and court cases they ended up returning all the money as the testing was seriously flawed .
It's time legislation was put in place to prevent all these half baked ideas being imposed by lunatic do gooders without a clue .
These rules and fines are hardly fair, they need to address the traffic lights first, so they don't stop cars unnecessarily. How often do you find the lights change to red as you approach, having been green with nothing going through? If they were going to change then they could have done so earlier, so improving the overall flow.
If car makers can make stop start systems then surely the same level of complexity can be applied to traffic monitoring for traffic lights.
If car makers can make stop start systems then surely the same level of complexity can be applied to traffic monitoring for traffic lights.
M4cruiser said:
These rules and fines are hardly fair, they need to address the traffic lights first, so they don't stop cars unnecessarily. How often do you find the lights change to red as you approach, having been green with nothing going through? If they were going to change then they could have done so earlier, so improving the overall flow.
If car makers can make stop start systems then surely the same level of complexity can be applied to traffic monitoring for traffic lights.
Exactly. If car makers can make stop start systems then surely the same level of complexity can be applied to traffic monitoring for traffic lights.
Emissions for modern cars at idle is minuscule compared to emissions under acceleration. Traffic lights, and road layouts, should be looking to make all urban progress as smooth as possible and avoid braking/acceleration like the plague.
To be honest I wonder why anyone would want to drive into Norwich, especially at peak times, unless delivering.
Not that it’s worse than other cities, it’s quite easy compared to many but it has a cheap, reliable PandR system which is a much easier option than driving in an parking IMO.
Not that it’s worse than other cities, it’s quite easy compared to many but it has a cheap, reliable PandR system which is a much easier option than driving in an parking IMO.
It's a side story, but a freind of mine has a narrowboat with a single cylinder hot bulb engine in it. The Thames locks have a rule of all engines off. Despite explaining the difficulty of them implementing this they where made to stop the engine. Nine litre, single cylinder, kick start, blowlamp preheat.
When they where still struggling to start it 15minutes after the gates where open and everyone else waiting, phonecalls ahead where made to ensure they where able to leave it running at the next lock.
Daniel
When they where still struggling to start it 15minutes after the gates where open and everyone else waiting, phonecalls ahead where made to ensure they where able to leave it running at the next lock.
Daniel
spookly said:
Exactly.
Emissions for modern cars at idle is minuscule compared to emissions under acceleration. Traffic lights, and road layouts, should be looking to make all urban progress as smooth as possible and avoid braking/acceleration like the plague.
Our local council could do with that tip, they love speed bumps. Especially the little humps many just plow over.Emissions for modern cars at idle is minuscule compared to emissions under acceleration. Traffic lights, and road layouts, should be looking to make all urban progress as smooth as possible and avoid braking/acceleration like the plague.
spookly said:
M4cruiser said:
These rules and fines are hardly fair, they need to address the traffic lights first, so they don't stop cars unnecessarily. How often do you find the lights change to red as you approach, having been green with nothing going through? If they were going to change then they could have done so earlier, so improving the overall flow.
If car makers can make stop start systems then surely the same level of complexity can be applied to traffic monitoring for traffic lights.
Exactly. If car makers can make stop start systems then surely the same level of complexity can be applied to traffic monitoring for traffic lights.
Emissions for modern cars at idle is minuscule compared to emissions under acceleration. Traffic lights, and road layouts, should be looking to make all urban progress as smooth as possible and avoid braking/acceleration like the plague.
I mean when did you last see a traffic police car?! I had a BMW with stop/start and that feature used to be disabled according to many factors like battery charge condition, power drain, ambient temperature, etc.
And it's probably why the poncey AGM battery only lasted 5 years and 55K miles - then the replacement had to be coded via the OBD to tell the car it knew it had a new one! So replacement only cost about £250 by an Indy.
And then the starter motor needed to be replaced before 7 years and 77K miles - that only cost £600 at a main dealer!
It would have been cheaper to have paid a slightly higher rate of RFL!
E31Shrew said:
Slightly OT, but just received a text from Islington Council, letting me know that from Jan 18 all diesel cars will be subject to a £2.00 per hour surcharge for parking. on top of the standard fee.
Thin end of the wedge
They want to charge you more when you're not using your smelly, polluting diesel...? Their logic is er... illogical.Thin end of the wedge
spookly said:
Emissions for modern cars at idle is minuscule compared to emissions under acceleration. Traffic lights, and road layouts, should be looking to make all urban progress as smooth as possible and avoid braking/acceleration like the plague.
That is very easy to achieve; a park and ride on the outskirts of town and no cars allowed in.Be careful of what you wish for.
Pigdoguk said:
Zarco said:
Personally I'm all for a clamp down on stinking black smoke belching diesels. There are loads which are clearly not running right.
An switching them off for at traffic lights for a short while is really going to deal with black smoke belching diesels?Forums | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff