Verbal NIP for 80mph in a 50mph

[JimClark49]

Hi all,

I was caught by Trafpol yesterday for doing 80mph on the 50mph section of the A55 (North Wales) just approaching the Britannia Bridge. I was on my motorbike.

The offences are:
1) excess speed
2) non-conforming number plate (it was a 7"x5" instead of 9"x7").

I am aware that I am over the threshold for fixed penalty and points, and will be summoned to the Magistrates. I wanted to ask if the fine is likely to be in the region of 1 weeks income plus 175% and six penalty points?

Also, I was not given a Vehicle Defect Rectification Notice for the registration plate (officer marked 'no' on the form), which means that I do not have 14 days to rectify the number plate and get it tested at MOT centre. It is the second number plate offence for this bike...I am not sure what happens in terms of DVLA revoking reg, and giving new one for the same year, or if I will get Q plate.

The officer advised me to do nothing until I get a letter in the post explaining what will happen next, but I am tempted to correct the reg plate defect and send off the stamped form.

Finally, in this situation, is it worth being represented by a solicitor (such as AGTlaw on here), or go to court without solicitor, be contrite and accept the decisions made?

[WaferThinHam]

Wait until you get the paperwork and go from there.

As far as I know having a small plate is just a fine, it's non-endorsable. Unless he's going to try and do you for perverting the course of justice or something stupid. You might find it just disappears when the paperwork comes through.

I'd be stunned if they gave you a Q plate based on one instance of being stopped with an undersized plate. (or you could just sell the bike to a friend in the mean time and then they couldn't)

I would not "correct" the paperwork and send it off. You'd just be admitting to something.

Wait for the letter, see what happens. Then decide if you want legal support. Might be worth talking to White Dalton as another group with experience in this field?

Edited by WaferThinHam on Sunday 7th January 11:04

[BertBert]

Well if it was me, I'd certainly consult an expert if I could afford it to work out the answer to that exact question!
Bert

[SS2.]

JimClark49 said:

I wanted to ask if the fine is likely to be in the region of 1 weeks income plus 175% and six penalty points?

Guideline penalties for 80mph in a 50mph limit are a Band C fine and a short ban or 6 points.

Have you tried the fine calculator?

Don't forget to allow for costs & victim surcharge.

JimClark49 said:

Finally, in this situation, is it worth being represented by a solicitor (such as AGTlaw on here), or go to court without solicitor, be contrite and accept the decisions made?

If and when proceedings are instigated (via SJPN), it would definitely be worth making contact with AGT before doing anything.

Edited by SS2. on Sunday 7th January 11:19

[a.lex]

Is it a cherished VRM, or a regular one? There is no "standard size" number plate, but the size used must accommodate the correct spacing and margins for the characters in your VRM.

[TooMany2cvs]

The small plate - is it a normal reg legally formatted, or one that you/somebody have transferred on and is misrepresented?

Doesn't seem to be a lot of point in revoking the reg if it's a normal one, simply a smaller bit of plastic.

[JimClark49]

Thanks for the comments so far everyone - very helpful.

I wont do anything at all until I get a letter in the post.

The number plate is standard letters (which I believe are the correct font, size and spacing, but on a smaller piece of plastic). I was going to point this out to the officer, but did not want to come across like I have an attitude. Having said that, I thought the law states it should be 9x7 in size.

It's not a cherished plate, and I am not concerned if the reg is changed. The bike is my forever bike, I wont ever sell it, but obviously want to avoid a Q plate so as not to have higher insurance costs.

[TooMany2cvs]

JimClark49 said:

The number plate is standard letters (which I believe are the correct font, size and spacing, but on a smaller piece of plastic). I was going to point this out to the officer, but did not want to come across like I have an attitude. Having said that, I thought the law states it should be 9x7 in size.

No, all the law specifies is the size, face, layout, and minimum margins. As long as they're met, the plastic itself can be whatever size you want. It's hard to see how the plastic could be shrunk that much and the layout/spacing still be legal, though. Pic?

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploa...

[WaferThinHam]

TooMany2cvs said:

JimClark49 said:

The number plate is standard letters (which I believe are the correct font, size and spacing, but on a smaller piece of plastic). I was going to point this out to the officer, but did not want to come across like I have an attitude. Having said that, I thought the law states it should be 9x7 in size.

No, all the law specifies is the size, face, layout, and minimum margins. As long as they're met, the plastic itself can be whatever size you want. It's hard to see how the plastic could be shrunk that much and the layout/spacing still be legal, though. Pic?

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploa...

This......generally if you follow all of the guidance on normal number plates you end up with 9 x 7 pretty much. (With the post code of the maker etc. etc.)

[Gavia]

WaferThinHam said:

Wait until you get the paperwork and go from there.

As far as I know having a small plate is just a fine, it's non-endorsable. Unless he's going to try and do you for perverting the course of justice or something stupid. You might find it just disappears when the paperwork comes through.

I'd be stunned if they gave you a Q plate based on one instance of being stopped with an undersized plate. (or you could just sell the bike to a friend in the mean time and then they couldn't)

I would not "correct" the paperwork and send it off. You'd just be admitting to something.

Wait for the letter, see what happens. Then decide if you want legal support. Might be worth talking to White Dalton as another group with experience in this field?

Edited by WaferThinHam on Sunday 7th January 11:04

He’d be far better off speaking to a motoring expert such as agtlaw, rather than a firm of claims solicitors.

[ianwayne]

a.lex said:

Is it a cherished VRM, or a regular one? There is no "standard size" number plate, but the size used must accommodate the correct spacing and margins for the characters in your VRM.

It's the size of the letters and numbers that is a legal minimum, not the size of the plate, yes. 64mm on a motorcycle and 79mm on a car.

Page 9 onwards:

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploa...

However, I have used 8 x 6 plates for 20 years +, which requires them to be slightly undersize. Never had a problem.

Beats the billboard size dealer ones that are often even bigger than 9x7!

[JimClark49]

Just checked the number plate and it is actually 8x6 and the character height is 6cm. See picture below.

[cmaguire]

To be legal any plate has to have the supplier's code and B.S. guff at the bottom to validate it. So even a correctly sized and lettered plate can be illegal.

You'd have to be a fair jobsworth to give you hassle for your plate though,

[scorcher]

Margins and spacings look too small on that. Don't think you can fit a standard registration on a smaller plate. You usually need some "1"s in there or for it to be a old style (pre 2001)six digit.

[TooMany2cvs]

cmaguire said:

You'd have to be a fair jobsworth to give you hassle for your plate though,

Perhaps.

But it's not the reason he was stopped, and it's on the record as having been flagged before, so...

[WaferThinHam]

Gavia said:

He’d be far better off speaking to a motoring expert such as agtlaw, rather than a firm of claims solicitors.

Always heard good things about White Dalton, but no problem.

That plate's not that small (in fact mine may or may not be an inch smaller than that!).

[TooMany2cvs]

WaferThinHam said:

That plate's not that small (in fact mine may or may not be an inch smaller than that!).

Perhaps. But the question is a simple one - "is it a legal plate?" - and the answer is no.

The fact others are worse doesn't change that.

[cmaguire]

TooMany2cvs said:

Perhaps. But the question is a simple one - "is it a legal plate?" - and the answer is no.

The fact others are worse doesn't change that.

Is that plate going to hinder or delay identification of that vehicle in any circumstances?
The answer is no. The font is legal and the plate is easy to read.

There are however plenty of vehicles with plates that are frankly ridiculous, and indicate an owner deserving of some retribution if for nothing other than being a vain bd and/or of obviously limited intellect.
Deal with them instead.

Spirit of the Law and all that.

[WaferThinHam]

TooMany2cvs said:

Perhaps. But the question is a simple one - "is it a legal plate?" - and the answer is no.

The fact others are worse doesn't change that.

Absolutely. I still think it's harsh, but at the same time North Wales police are well known for not liking motorcyclists at the best of times. How big's your (mate's) plate out of interest?

[TooMany2cvs]

cmaguire said:

Deal with them instead.

Is it an either-or?

Especially given you've got them stationary in front of you, and the paperwork on the go anyway.