On the verge of a Totting Up Ban..... HELP!
Discussion
HNY all!
I've just been notified that I allegedly was driving at 59mph in a reduced 50 mph section on the M4, 8.30pm on Boxing Day! Merry Xmas from Gwent!
Unfortunately if I accept the 3 pts it will take me to 12 pts, which I'm led to believe is an automatic ban!?
I'm a bit miffed as the previous offences were 34/30mph; 56/ 50mph reduced section on a Dual Carriageway; 91/70mph Dual Carriageway- fair cop!
All occurred in 2016, so within 3 yrs.
Does anyone have any good recommendations of a Law firm who successfully handle Speeding offences, in particular totting up of penalty points?
Or some good advice of how to proceed to minimise the pain ahead?
Many thanks.
I've just been notified that I allegedly was driving at 59mph in a reduced 50 mph section on the M4, 8.30pm on Boxing Day! Merry Xmas from Gwent!
Unfortunately if I accept the 3 pts it will take me to 12 pts, which I'm led to believe is an automatic ban!?
I'm a bit miffed as the previous offences were 34/30mph; 56/ 50mph reduced section on a Dual Carriageway; 91/70mph Dual Carriageway- fair cop!
All occurred in 2016, so within 3 yrs.
Does anyone have any good recommendations of a Law firm who successfully handle Speeding offences, in particular totting up of penalty points?
Or some good advice of how to proceed to minimise the pain ahead?
Many thanks.
I assume you've also taken a speed awareness course recently?
If not, then of course you should be offered one at that speed.
You'll notice on the NIP that one of the conditions of the fixed penalty is that you don't become a totter - so you cannot accept the fixed penalty and it'll be a day in court.
If not, then of course you should be offered one at that speed.
You'll notice on the NIP that one of the conditions of the fixed penalty is that you don't become a totter - so you cannot accept the fixed penalty and it'll be a day in court.
Standard advice is that a court could be persuaded that banning you would amount to exceptional hardship, predominantly to others but can include yourself.
Having to get the train/bus to work is not exceptional hardship.
You being vital to a business that would otherwise suffer as a result of you being banned could be.
Others depending on you being able to drive (e.g. to take to appointments etc) where they can't get themselves there by other means could be deemed exceptional hardship.
There is no hard and fast rule, however since the subject of how many people in the country seem to be driving around on 12+ points seems to come up often, it would tend to suggest that convincing a court of exceptional hardship isn't an insurmountable task.
I've also been led to believe that you can't use the same exceptional hardship argument more than once.
EDIT: Bearing in mind the OP's proclivity for speeding despite having several points, I'd going to assume he has already done a speed awareness course.
Having to get the train/bus to work is not exceptional hardship.
You being vital to a business that would otherwise suffer as a result of you being banned could be.
Others depending on you being able to drive (e.g. to take to appointments etc) where they can't get themselves there by other means could be deemed exceptional hardship.
There is no hard and fast rule, however since the subject of how many people in the country seem to be driving around on 12+ points seems to come up often, it would tend to suggest that convincing a court of exceptional hardship isn't an insurmountable task.
I've also been led to believe that you can't use the same exceptional hardship argument more than once.
EDIT: Bearing in mind the OP's proclivity for speeding despite having several points, I'd going to assume he has already done a speed awareness course.
Edited by Durzel on Tuesday 9th January 12:30
You will either get 6 months ban for totting up which is standard and a fine normally around a 100% band B - weeks wages.
There is chance if you lawyer up you may................get away with no ban and a fine or a shorter ban. If you get no ban you will be fined and maybe have points applied (friend got £150 fine and 2 points taking him to 11). The issue with this as its much the same as the 9 points you have been on and ignored and carried on not being careful of your speed, so you will be back to square one in 3-9 months.
Or they can sometimes fine you and ban you for a short period I got 21 days on a totting up ban back in 2005. I was able to keep my job etc but I was young and was in training as a surveyor and was able to show good reports as a student etc as I would of have to leave my studies as well.
There is chance if you lawyer up you may................get away with no ban and a fine or a shorter ban. If you get no ban you will be fined and maybe have points applied (friend got £150 fine and 2 points taking him to 11). The issue with this as its much the same as the 9 points you have been on and ignored and carried on not being careful of your speed, so you will be back to square one in 3-9 months.
Or they can sometimes fine you and ban you for a short period I got 21 days on a totting up ban back in 2005. I was able to keep my job etc but I was young and was in training as a surveyor and was able to show good reports as a student etc as I would of have to leave my studies as well.
surveyor_101 said:
You will either get 6 months ban for totting up which is standard and a fine normally around a 100% band B - weeks wages.
There is chance if you lawyer up you may................get away with no ban and a fine or a shorter ban. If you get no ban you will be fined and maybe have points applied (friend got £150 fine and 2 points taking him to 11). The issue with this as its much the same as the 9 points you have been on and ignored and carried on not being careful of your speed, so you will be back to square one in 3-9 months.
Or they can sometimes fine you and ban you for a short period I got 21 days on a totting up ban back in 2005. I was able to keep my job etc but I was young and was in training as a surveyor and was able to show good reports as a student etc as I would of have to leave my studies as well.
How did he get 2 points when the minimum punishment if guilty is 3 points? The sentencing is 3-6 points, or a ban in extreme circumstances. There is no option for 2 points. There is chance if you lawyer up you may................get away with no ban and a fine or a shorter ban. If you get no ban you will be fined and maybe have points applied (friend got £150 fine and 2 points taking him to 11). The issue with this as its much the same as the 9 points you have been on and ignored and carried on not being careful of your speed, so you will be back to square one in 3-9 months.
Or they can sometimes fine you and ban you for a short period I got 21 days on a totting up ban back in 2005. I was able to keep my job etc but I was young and was in training as a surveyor and was able to show good reports as a student etc as I would of have to leave my studies as well.
Gavia said:
How did he get 2 points when the minimum punishment if guilty is 3 points? The sentencing is 3-6 points, or a ban in extreme circumstances. There is no option for 2 points.
This was back in the late early 2000s.I think he had 9 points and got another 3 and tried to accept the 3 points which were rejected after he sent his licence off. He then got a magistrates court date months later was about 4-5 months and 3 points expired if I remember rightly and so he went to court with 6 points but 9 at time of the offence.
So I was wrong he got 5 points put on a small fine taking him to 11 points.
Had 9 got caught and sent off for the extra 3. One offence was badly handwritten on his licence.
The licence came back with a no you not eligible for a fixed penalty you will be summoned.
Court date came loads later and 3 points had expired so 9 minus = 6.
He then got 5 points at court taking him to 11.
Edited by surveyor_101 on Tuesday 9th January 14:20
JC JNR said:
HNY all!
I've just been notified that I allegedly was driving at 59mph in a reduced 50 mph section on the M4, 8.30pm on Boxing Day! Merry Xmas from Gwent!
Unfortunately if I accept the 3 pts it will take me to 12 pts, which I'm led to believe is an automatic ban!?
I'm a bit miffed as the previous offences were 34/30mph; 56/ 50mph reduced section on a Dual Carriageway; 91/70mph Dual Carriageway- fair cop!
All occurred in 2016, so within 3 yrs.
Does anyone have any good recommendations of a Law firm who successfully handle Speeding offences, in particular totting up of penalty points?
Or some good advice of how to proceed to minimise the pain ahead?
Many thanks.
Not that it will help now, but how did you manage to get prosecuted below the guidelines (10% +2mph), twice? Bad memory, perhaps?I've just been notified that I allegedly was driving at 59mph in a reduced 50 mph section on the M4, 8.30pm on Boxing Day! Merry Xmas from Gwent!
Unfortunately if I accept the 3 pts it will take me to 12 pts, which I'm led to believe is an automatic ban!?
I'm a bit miffed as the previous offences were 34/30mph; 56/ 50mph reduced section on a Dual Carriageway; 91/70mph Dual Carriageway- fair cop!
All occurred in 2016, so within 3 yrs.
Does anyone have any good recommendations of a Law firm who successfully handle Speeding offences, in particular totting up of penalty points?
Or some good advice of how to proceed to minimise the pain ahead?
Many thanks.
surveyor_101 said:
I think he had 9 points and got another 3 and tried to accept the 3 points which were rejected after he sent his licence off. He then got a magistrates court date months later was about 4-5 months and 3 points expired if I remember rightly and so he went to court with 6 points but 9 at time of the offence.
So I was wrong he got 5 points put on a small fine taking him to 11 points.
Had 9 got caught and sent off for the extra 3. One offence was badly handwritten on his licence.
The licence came back with a no you not eligible for a fixed penalty you will be summoned.
Court date came loads later and 3 points had expired so 9 minus = 6.
He then got 5 points at court taking him to 11.
Moot point, but that wouldn't have happened either - for totting, it's the points tally at the time of the offence which are taken into consideration, not those at conviction.So I was wrong he got 5 points put on a small fine taking him to 11 points.
Had 9 got caught and sent off for the extra 3. One offence was badly handwritten on his licence.
The licence came back with a no you not eligible for a fixed penalty you will be summoned.
Court date came loads later and 3 points had expired so 9 minus = 6.
He then got 5 points at court taking him to 11.
SS2. said:
Moot point, but that wouldn't have happened either - for totting, it's the points tally at the time of the offence which is taken into consideration, not those at conviction.
I have checked and that is exactly what happened, I went to court with them.Had 9 got caught went to court pleaded exceptional hardship and so the court took exceptional hardship plea. So as he was technically only on 6 but wasn't on a date of an offence which I agree is supposed to be when the conviction is based on.
The mags said you have 6 current we apply 5 so now 11 so you will be 1 point off a totting up ban for 3 years so best behave etc, effectively giving a second chance at the totting process.
Its Taunton Magistrates court back in 2003.
Edited by surveyor_101 on Tuesday 9th January 14:49
Edited by surveyor_101 on Tuesday 9th January 14:51
surveyor_101 said:
SS2. said:
Moot point, but that wouldn't have happened either - for totting, it's the points tally at the time of the offence which is taken into consideration, not those at conviction.
I have checked and that is exactly what happened, I went to court with them.Had 9 got caught went to court pleaded exceptional hardship and so the court took exceptional hardship plea. So as he was technically only on 6 but wasn't on a date of an offence which I agree is supposed to be when the conviction is based on.
The mags said you have 6 current we apply 11 so you will be 1 point off a totting up ban for 3 years so best behave etc, effectively giving a second chance at the totting process.
Its Taunton Magistrates court back in 2003 and if I recall correctly.
[quote=S11Steve]Patterson Law - https://www.pattersonlaw.co.uk/
Or AGT - http://www.counsel.direct/
Steve, many thanks for the Patterson link- I've spoken to Emma Patterson earlier today who was really helpful.
Kind regards
Jnr.
Or AGT - http://www.counsel.direct/
Steve, many thanks for the Patterson link- I've spoken to Emma Patterson earlier today who was really helpful.
Kind regards
Jnr.
I had 12 points on my licence at one point, 'driver pleads exceptional circumstances, loss of livelihood' was stamped on my licence until the points came off.
I represented myself, told the magistrates I'd lose my job, had a family to support etc and ended up with a £1200 fine and the ability to continue driving.
Good luck.
I represented myself, told the magistrates I'd lose my job, had a family to support etc and ended up with a £1200 fine and the ability to continue driving.
Good luck.
Coin Slot. said:
I had 12 points on my licence at one point, 'driver pleads exceptional circumstances, loss of livelihood' was stamped on my licence until the points came off.
I represented myself, told the magistrates I'd lose my job, had a family to support etc and ended up with a £1200 fine and the ability to continue driving.
Good luck.
It can be argued but Mags and there understanding of how to apply some things including exceptional hardship rule vary greatly in my experience.I represented myself, told the magistrates I'd lose my job, had a family to support etc and ended up with a £1200 fine and the ability to continue driving.
Good luck.
If the OP is getting legal advice in my experience they charge you high, set your heights low, i.e. fine a week's wages and 6 months totting up is the best case. Then try and get you very short or no ban and massive fine and then they seem like they have delivered.
I once had a solicitor when I was caught at 3 figures within 6 months of passing my test and he said your an idiot and told the court I was as well and was very off and blunt. I got 4 months £800 and didn't have to resit my test by some miracle and probably a small devon court! I went in still 17 and very green
I represented myself after a solicitor sold me a doom and gloom but pay me £xxx for a court appearance and I will see what I can do. I was 22 and represented myself and read up and understood the law a little bit.
surveyor_101 said:
It can be argued but Mags and there understanding of how to apply some things including exceptional hardship rule vary greatly in my experience.
If the OP is getting legal advice in my experience they charge you high, set your heights low, i.e. fine a week's wages and 6 months totting up is the best case. Then try and get you very short or no ban and massive fine and then they seem like they have delivered.
I once had a solicitor when I was caught at 3 figures within 6 months of passing my test and he said your an idiot and told the court I was as well and was very off and blunt. I got 4 months £800 and didn't have to resit my test by some miracle and probably a small devon court! I went in still 17 and very green
I represented myself after a solicitor sold me a doom and gloom but pay me £xxx for a court appearance and I will see what I can do. I was 22 and represented myself and read up and understood the law a little bit.
Agree, the op's mileage may vary depending on what side of the bed the magistrates get out of that morning.If the OP is getting legal advice in my experience they charge you high, set your heights low, i.e. fine a week's wages and 6 months totting up is the best case. Then try and get you very short or no ban and massive fine and then they seem like they have delivered.
I once had a solicitor when I was caught at 3 figures within 6 months of passing my test and he said your an idiot and told the court I was as well and was very off and blunt. I got 4 months £800 and didn't have to resit my test by some miracle and probably a small devon court! I went in still 17 and very green
I represented myself after a solicitor sold me a doom and gloom but pay me £xxx for a court appearance and I will see what I can do. I was 22 and represented myself and read up and understood the law a little bit.
I was on 6 points at the time and the magistrates told me that I was an 'habitual speeder' and that they had no choice but to award me 6 penalty points (I was doing 75 in a 50, there were mitigating circumstances honestly). I forget exactly how I ended up effectively getting a get out of jail card, but it was along the lines of the ban would cause me excessive hardship and I was allowed to continue driving with 12 points on my licence.
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