Yellow box grids at signalled roundabouts

[jondude]

So I roll up to the stop line at the lights (on green) and stop as the box on my path is blocked - 2 cars stopped in it despite going like me, straight ahead, and road ahead of the box also blocked.

Chap behind me starts going nuts on the car horn and will not stop. I hold my ground, the box then clears while we are still on green and then off I go.

Chap behind is still going nuts and waving like mad - I just shake my head and finally he stops his noise.

As he was so, so adamant I was in the wrong I am also curious as maybe the law has changed or I have indeed made an error?

I always thought that on the yellow boxes at signalled roundabouts you must not drive on the yellow grid/box unless you can clear the box/grid - that is, your chosen exit is clear, as is the box (or you can see the cars moving so you will not stop on it)

What say ye?

[steve2]

You were correct, do not enter yellow box until your exit is clear

[grumpy52]

The problem is many out there find that the traffic usually clears before the lights change so they enter the box and also get annoyed with anyone who doesn’t take the same gamble .
Those that frequent areas with box junction cameras don't take the risk and obey the rules .

[jondude]

Thanks both for the above - and also yes, agree it was probably a local trying to push me to the same gamble, not least as there were no cameras on the r'bout.

[Chebble]

You were right, the only exception is if you’re turning right and oncoming traffic is stopping you from exit, then you can wait in the box junction.

[SVTRick]

Open your window and give the other driver a nice big fat middle finger

[syl]

Chebble said:

You were right, the only exception is if you’re turning right and oncoming traffic is stopping you from exit, then you can wait in the box junction.

Or other cars that are turning right are stopping you.

Not sure how that pans out on a roundabout.

[Red Devil]

steve2 said:

You were correct, do not enter yellow box until your exit is clear

HC Rule174 states: You MUST NOT enter the box until your exit road or lane is clear.
However the legislation it refers to uses different language. TSRGD Schedule 19 Part II Sections 7 & 8

said:

Prohibition conveyed by markings in diagram 1043 or 1044
7.—(1) Except when placed in the circumstances described in paragraph 8, the road markings shown in diagrams 1043 and 1044 shall each convey the prohibition that no person shall cause a vehicle to enter the box junction so that the vehicle has to stop within the box junction due to the presence of stationary vehicles.

(2) The prohibition in sub-paragraph (1) does not apply to any person—

(a)who causes a vehicle to enter the box junction (other than a box junction at a roundabout) for the purpose of turning right; and
(b)stops it within the box junction for so long as it is prevented from completing the right turn by oncoming vehicles or other vehicles which are stationary whilst waiting to complete a right turn.

Prohibition conveyed when markings are placed in conjunction with signs in diagrams 615 and 811
8. When the road marking shown in diagram 1043 or 1044 is placed in conjunction with the signs shown in diagrams 615 and 811 on an area of carriageway which is less than 4.5 metres wide at its narrowest point, the road marking shall convey the prohibition that no person shall cause a vehicle to enter the box junction so that the vehicle has to stop within the box junction due to the presence of oncoming vehicles or other stationary vehicles beyond the box junction.

In the OP's case he did the right thing.

However a situation can arise where there are no stationary vehicles at the time of entry but something happens afterwards to change that.
A PCN was overturned on review by PATAS* in September 2013.
The appellant was proceeding through the box when some berk cut him up and caused him to come to a halt therein.
At the time he entered there were no stationary vehicles. Hence the 3 adjudicator panel found in his favour.

 * Which became London Tribunals in July 2015

[Chebble]

syl said:

Chebble said:

You were right, the only exception is if you’re turning right and oncoming traffic is stopping you from exit, then you can wait in the box junction.

Or other cars that are turning right are stopping you.

Not sure how that pans out on a roundabout.

Oops. That’ll teach me not to skim read.

[NikBartlett]

You were in the right here. If it were me and it was a camera controlled box junction I would have waited until the box was clear, driven through the box and then stopped on the other side of the box for maybe 10 seconds or so. Mr Irate Driver behind would of followed you in like a lamb to the slaughter and then be trapped in the box with a good chance of a ticket and fine - instant Karma

[Red Devil]

Chebble said:

syl said:

Chebble said:

You were right, the only exception is if you’re turning right and oncoming traffic is stopping you from exit, then you can wait in the box junction.

Or other cars that are turning right are stopping you.

Not sure how that pans out on a roundabout.

Oops. That’ll teach me not to skim read.

The right turn exemption at a box junction does not apply to those on roundabouts.
Specifically excluded in Section 7(2) above. The reason should be obvious if you think about it.

[Chebble]

Red Devil said:

Chebble said:

syl said:

Chebble said:

You were right, the only exception is if you’re turning right and oncoming traffic is stopping you from exit, then you can wait in the box junction.

Or other cars that are turning right are stopping you.

Not sure how that pans out on a roundabout.

Oops. That’ll teach me not to skim read.

The right turn exemption at a box junction does not apply to those on roundabouts.
Specifically excluded in Section 7(2) above. The reason should be obvious if you think about it.

It is, but as I said, I didn’t read it properly, I thought we were talking about an ordinary box junction.

[surveyor]

OP reminds me of a situation I got myself in.

Cross roads traffic controlled - car in front of me stopped unexpectedly - leaving me in the middle of the junction (no yellow box). Lights went red while we were in the middle.

Traffic in front then cleared, so we could have moved from where we were blocking all traffic. But no as it was red the car in front sat there for the whole cycle until it turned green.

Lots of people were upset.