Vehicle control services Ltd, parking charge notice
Discussion
I’m putting this on here for info rather than asking for advice. I’ll update it if/when anything further happens.
I sold a car last year in the middle of June. Approx 8 weeks later I received a PCN from Vehicle control services with an offence date of 01/07/17 so 2 weeks after the sale.
I live in the north west and the guy who bought the car lives in Scotland. The alleged offence was in Kirkcaldy.
I was busy with work etc and come 2nd letter I made contact with them to explain I’d sold the car weeks before the issue and was asked to provide evidence. I provided them with the dvla letter to confirm I was no longer the keeper with the correct date also being provided.
I thought that was it. It wasn’t. They got back in touch with me to say that it was up to me to provide new keeper details. I explained that it wasn’t, it was for them. They ended the call by saying they would run another search with dvla. I didn’t hear anything then until last week when I received another letter again for the same PCN offering me 2 weeks to pay £100.
After calling them this morning I’ve explained it all over again. They insist it’s up to me to provide new keeper details. I’ve again explained that it’s not as I had nothing to do with the vehicle at the time and pointed them towards my submission to them last year from dvla confirming I was not the keeper.
I’ve also explained that I will ignore all further contact from them and should it go any further, ie to court then I’ll be quite happy to turn up with proof it was not me and that I’ll be claiming costs etc.....
I was cordial and polite.
Has anyone dealt with these lot? They seem clueless and I’m guessing they prey on people who just roll over and pay?
I probably should have ignored them in the first instance.
I sold a car last year in the middle of June. Approx 8 weeks later I received a PCN from Vehicle control services with an offence date of 01/07/17 so 2 weeks after the sale.
I live in the north west and the guy who bought the car lives in Scotland. The alleged offence was in Kirkcaldy.
I was busy with work etc and come 2nd letter I made contact with them to explain I’d sold the car weeks before the issue and was asked to provide evidence. I provided them with the dvla letter to confirm I was no longer the keeper with the correct date also being provided.
I thought that was it. It wasn’t. They got back in touch with me to say that it was up to me to provide new keeper details. I explained that it wasn’t, it was for them. They ended the call by saying they would run another search with dvla. I didn’t hear anything then until last week when I received another letter again for the same PCN offering me 2 weeks to pay £100.
After calling them this morning I’ve explained it all over again. They insist it’s up to me to provide new keeper details. I’ve again explained that it’s not as I had nothing to do with the vehicle at the time and pointed them towards my submission to them last year from dvla confirming I was not the keeper.
I’ve also explained that I will ignore all further contact from them and should it go any further, ie to court then I’ll be quite happy to turn up with proof it was not me and that I’ll be claiming costs etc.....
I was cordial and polite.
Has anyone dealt with these lot? They seem clueless and I’m guessing they prey on people who just roll over and pay?
I probably should have ignored them in the first instance.
stevensdrs said:
Your final sentence would have been the correct thing to do. Private parking charges in Scotland can safely be ignored. Just ignore them now as there is no chance they will take this to court and if they did they would lose.
My daughter had a similar experience. They will go through a process of sending letters that lasts for a year, I think my daughter got 9 letters, each one promising all sorts of court action, blah blah blah.As the poster above states it's in Scotland so it's all BS. You've told them the story, just ignore everything else.
stevensdrs said:
Private parking charges in Scotland can safely be ignored.
Really? https://www.eveningtelegraph.co.uk/fp/private-park...Cat
Cat said:
Either way, I’ve proof by way of letter from DVLA to confirm I’d sold the vehicle 2 weeks prior. Cat said:
Yes they are if they only have the keeper details as there is no legal power to take action against the keeper, only the driver. Dont tell them the driver details and they are stuckpavarotti1980 said:
Yes they are if they only have the keeper details as there is no legal power to take action against the keeper, only the driver. Dont tell them the driver details and they are stuck
I'm aware of that but that isn't what stevensdrs posted. Also you would be more correct to say "Don't tell them the driver details and they may be stuck". There is no power in Scotland for the parking company to compel the RK to name the driver but if they are able to prove to the court in some other way who the driver was they can still take action. Cat
As above, as the issue occured in Scotland, even if you were the registered keeper at that point, nothing could be done in regards to legal enforcement against you, as keeper. If they had proof you were driver, it may be different, but VCS do not rely on POFA for keeper liability.
Keep reiterating the same point - Keeper liability does not exist in Scotland, and you were not the keeper at the time.
It may get escalated to BW Legal, repeat the same thing to them if it does.
Keep reiterating the same point - Keeper liability does not exist in Scotland, and you were not the keeper at the time.
It may get escalated to BW Legal, repeat the same thing to them if it does.
Cat said:
I'm aware of that but that isn't what stevensdrs posted. Also you would be more correct to say "Don't tell them the driver details and they may be stuck". There is no power in Scotland for the parking company to compel the RK to name the driver but if they are able to prove to the court in some other way who the driver was they can still take action.
Cat
How would they know the name of the driver by posting a letter to the keeper?Cat
They cant take action against the keeper so it would never get to court and they know it. It is merely a fishing exercise
I had a similar thing many years ago, but speeding tickets, after 15 of them all replied to properly I ignored the last one, It went all the way and I got a court date, I phoned the name on the summons (I remember it was an Inspector Lamb) and told him I was happy to go to court, and why, He phoned me back in an hour, having spoke to DVLA, agreed direct that I was not the registered keeper and the case was dropped, with a written apology.
Cat said:
A very specific case and someone taking the piss with an allocated parking space.See if you can find three more cases of anyone in Scotland being pursued for "overstaying" in a car park.
Neonblau said:
A very specific case and someone taking the piss with an allocated parking space.
See if you can find three more cases of anyone in Scotland being pursued for "overstaying" in a car park.
This one doesn't count - it's now widely accepted as a PR stunt by the parking company involved - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west...See if you can find three more cases of anyone in Scotland being pursued for "overstaying" in a car park.
Neonblau said:
A very specific case and someone taking the piss with an allocated parking space.
See if you can find three more cases of anyone in Scotland being pursued for "overstaying" in a car park.
I'm not suggesting court is common or even likely, but is a possibility. The original post I replied to stated "Private parking charges in Scotland can safely be ignored" - yet evidently they be can't in all cases. If the post had said "some" or "most" or "the majority of" then fair enough but it didn't. See if you can find three more cases of anyone in Scotland being pursued for "overstaying" in a car park.
Cat
Cat said:
I'm not suggesting court is common or even likely, but is a possibility. The original post I replied to stated "Private parking charges in Scotland can safely be ignored" - yet evidently they be can't in all cases. If the post had said "some" or "most" or "the majority of" then fair enough but it didn't.
Cat
If they were ignored then nothing would end up in court so that statment is correct. Cat
S11Steve said:
As above, as the issue occured in Scotland, even if you were the registered keeper at that point, nothing could be done in regards to legal enforcement against you, as keeper. If they had proof you were driver, it may be different, but VCS do not rely on POFA for keeper liability.
Keep reiterating the same point - Keeper liability does not exist in Scotland, and you were not the keeper at the time.
It may get escalated to BW Legal, repeat the same thing to them if it does.
This is an 'offence' in Scotland chasing an 'English' registered keeper. ETA 'English' registered address.Keep reiterating the same point - Keeper liability does not exist in Scotland, and you were not the keeper at the time.
It may get escalated to BW Legal, repeat the same thing to them if it does.
Just out of interest what would the situation be 'switching' the nationalities, ie a 'Northerner' came shleping down here overstaying in our English car parks then fecking off back over the border.
Is it down to where the 'offence' occurred or where the driver lives ?
Ie an English lease company could have contracts over the border etc.
Even though they are all 'home' nations under DVLA the legislation is applied differently similar to DD over a line in the ground oooop north.
speedyguy said:
This is an 'offence' in Scotland chasing an 'English' registered keeper. ETA 'English' registered address.
Just out of interest what would the situation be 'switching' the nationalities, ie a 'Northerner' came shleping down here overstaying in our English car parks then fecking off back over the border.
Is it down to where the 'offence' occurred or where the driver lives ?
Ie an English lease company could have contracts over the border etc.
Even though they are all 'home' nations under DVLA the legislation is applied differently similar to DD over a line in the ground oooop north.
It cuts both ways - the PPC can not chase a RK who lives in Scotland when the parking event occured in England, or pursue an English keeper for a parking event in Scotland. Just out of interest what would the situation be 'switching' the nationalities, ie a 'Northerner' came shleping down here overstaying in our English car parks then fecking off back over the border.
Is it down to where the 'offence' occurred or where the driver lives ?
Ie an English lease company could have contracts over the border etc.
Even though they are all 'home' nations under DVLA the legislation is applied differently similar to DD over a line in the ground oooop north.
Nothing to do with the DVLA, but POFA 2012 only applies in England and Wales.
When the law came into practice in 2012, prior to joining this business, a discussion was held on the merits of registering all of our vehicles in Scotland. Initially we did pay them on receipt, but it didn't take long to upset a load of our customers so we changed tact. Operationally we treat all of these as "fines" regardless of where they occured, because it simplifies and speeds up our processes whilst keeping costs and customer disputes minimal.
A few of our Scottish customers have objected to us naming them as hirers and then they get targeted with threat letters, but do understand our position and the volume of "fines" we have to manage. Our customers also trust me enough to know that they won't get hit with CCJs or bailiff visits and that service and subsequent help/advice is covered in our nominal admin fee for processing the Notice to keepers.
speedyguy said:
All a load of mither due to kneejerk reaction politics.
They should have left clamping in place another year or 2 whilst coming up with a decent workable plan but TBH it's only a few pillocks on both sides that have caused the issues.
I do see plenty of examples of YPLAC, and although I'm less inclined to be helpful towards them, there is a risk to our company as Registered Keeper that I have to mitigate. I also deal with plenty of examples of tickets being issued in residents own spaces and very short over stays in retail parks, which suggests that they are genuine customers rather than abusing the facilities.
I had a snow covered permit ticket issued a few weeks back, and after seeing that one in the news last week I was tempted to go public with it given that Private Parking issues were discussed in parliament too - but my customer has asked me not to, and I respect that. Neither my customer nor my company will pay or even appeal that one though, we want to see how far the PPC will push it.
It does show that the industry needs a big clean up though,.
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