Tenancy legal type required please
Discussion
I need to find someone that can give me some proper legal advice on my position as a tenant before I go back to the letting agent. Don’t mind paying but after the last fortnight I’m ‘somewhat financially depleted’ so if any recommendations for solicitors could bare cost in mind!
Basic situation - we signed a tenancy agreement on 21st feb first thing in the morning, supposedly to move in that day. We went to the flat and there was no gas supply. A few phone calls later it transpired that the gas and electricity meter had been changed to key prepayment type at some point during the previous tenancy. The contract specifically states that no tenant may fit a coin or key meter and that if it is it must be returned to an account meter, so when we signed we expected to have account meters. Not only were there key meters but there was a large debt on the gas meter through emergency credit and standing charges being used so no supply could be had till an engineer had come out, which took a week in itself.
To make things more fun, the electric meter is in a locked cupboard that tenants are not permitted a key to. The letting agents took the top-up key from us and told us that they would check it once a week to see how much was left so we could then top up?!!
Today they have relented after considerable pressure and given me a key to the cupboard.
Because there was no heating and questionable electrics we were unable to move in for 11 days. That meant my wife had to move her start date of her new job back a week costing a full weeks wages. I had to do just over 400 miles back and forth trying to sort it out and obviously cost me time as well as petrol. I had to cancel two client jobs to be at the flat when the engineers came out to do jobs.
They have agreed to pay the rent back for the period we couldn’t live in the apartment but are already pushing against compensating our incurred costs that are a direct result of their not checking the flat was in order.
I want to go in fully armed so want to know what (if any) regs or contract points they may have broken. I’m happy to go to small claims over this as a matter of principle, they have been complete a*******s about the situation.
To top it off we also discovered last night that the only thing that works on the oven is the light and the fan, it doesn’t get hot. Also the ‘blown bulb’ is actually a broken fitting with wires exposed.
Basic situation - we signed a tenancy agreement on 21st feb first thing in the morning, supposedly to move in that day. We went to the flat and there was no gas supply. A few phone calls later it transpired that the gas and electricity meter had been changed to key prepayment type at some point during the previous tenancy. The contract specifically states that no tenant may fit a coin or key meter and that if it is it must be returned to an account meter, so when we signed we expected to have account meters. Not only were there key meters but there was a large debt on the gas meter through emergency credit and standing charges being used so no supply could be had till an engineer had come out, which took a week in itself.
To make things more fun, the electric meter is in a locked cupboard that tenants are not permitted a key to. The letting agents took the top-up key from us and told us that they would check it once a week to see how much was left so we could then top up?!!
Today they have relented after considerable pressure and given me a key to the cupboard.
Because there was no heating and questionable electrics we were unable to move in for 11 days. That meant my wife had to move her start date of her new job back a week costing a full weeks wages. I had to do just over 400 miles back and forth trying to sort it out and obviously cost me time as well as petrol. I had to cancel two client jobs to be at the flat when the engineers came out to do jobs.
They have agreed to pay the rent back for the period we couldn’t live in the apartment but are already pushing against compensating our incurred costs that are a direct result of their not checking the flat was in order.
I want to go in fully armed so want to know what (if any) regs or contract points they may have broken. I’m happy to go to small claims over this as a matter of principle, they have been complete a*******s about the situation.
To top it off we also discovered last night that the only thing that works on the oven is the light and the fan, it doesn’t get hot. Also the ‘blown bulb’ is actually a broken fitting with wires exposed.
f
k ups are part of life, their handling of the situation has been simple negligence. They have done nothing at all to help and lots to actually hinder the problem being resolved. I had to pay £450 admin fee for them to ensure everything was sorted, it wasn’t. That is not part of life that is them not doing a job they are paid for.
k ups are part of life, their handling of the situation has been simple negligence. They have done nothing at all to help and lots to actually hinder the problem being resolved. I had to pay £450 admin fee for them to ensure everything was sorted, it wasn’t. That is not part of life that is them not doing a job they are paid for.Davi said:
fk ups are part of life, their handling of the situation has been simple negligence. They have done nothing at all to help and lots to actually hinder the problem being resolved. I had to pay £450 admin fee for them to ensure everything was sorted, it wasn’t. That is not part of life that is them not doing a job they are paid for.
Sounds like the last tenant didn’t get a decent check out and they missed the prepay meter or their tenancy doesn’t reflect the property they have let you. This is a standard clause of properties already fitting with a credit meter but the agent has dropped the ball here.k ups are part of life, their handling of the situation has been simple negligence. They have done nothing at all to help and lots to actually hinder the problem being resolved. I had to pay £450 admin fee for them to ensure everything was sorted, it wasn’t. That is not part of life that is them not doing a job they are paid for.Shelter are good for this sort of thing and free.
But I have experience of this.
I would state that the tenancy states it’s a credit meter and you would of not let the property on the basis it’s was prepayment. State you feel the landlord has breached the Tenancy.
Unfortunately I have come across agents who think that most people ignorant of these things and can bluff. I have approached ARLA to report illegal activity of A letting and they care not.
Edited by surveyor_101 on Wednesday 7th March 21:16
They can't restrict you access to the meter or insist it is not changed, the only thing they can insist is that it is the same type of meter at the end of the tenancy... That said the contract states its a non pre payment meter so it's on them to cover any costs of having it changed to one if you aren't happy with pre payment.
Im no expert in this but wouldn't expect to see much luck with the costs you've mentioned as you could have taken a local hotel etc to solve the issue... That said as a tenant you withhold rent rather than fight them IMO.
Im no expert in this but wouldn't expect to see much luck with the costs you've mentioned as you could have taken a local hotel etc to solve the issue... That said as a tenant you withhold rent rather than fight them IMO.
If the tenant is responsible for paying the utility bills direct to the energy suppliers, then a landlord/agent cannot stop a tenant changing either the energy suppliers, and/or a prepayment meter/s with a normal meter/s, the same that allows one to pay after using the energy.
The oven is obviously not fit for purpose, and you therefore need to request an immediate replacement of the same.
Either local council’s housing department, or their environment health department, will offer legal advice to a private tenant, and the mention of the latter to the agent, might speed up the agent’s actions.
Out of interest, did the agents take a Deposit, and do you know if the same has been protected under the Tenancy Deposit Scheme
Any unnecessary costs you have incurred, you could request reimbursement for from the agent, the same in writing, with the small claims court being your last resort.
The oven is obviously not fit for purpose, and you therefore need to request an immediate replacement of the same.
Either local council’s housing department, or their environment health department, will offer legal advice to a private tenant, and the mention of the latter to the agent, might speed up the agent’s actions.
Out of interest, did the agents take a Deposit, and do you know if the same has been protected under the Tenancy Deposit Scheme
Any unnecessary costs you have incurred, you could request reimbursement for from the agent, the same in writing, with the small claims court being your last resort.
Wings said:
If the tenant is responsible for paying the utility bills direct to the energy suppliers, then a landlord/agent cannot stop a tenant changing either the energy suppliers, and/or a prepayment meter/s with a normal meter/s, the same that allows one to pay after using the energy.
Er, possibly but as a landlord I have it written in to the tenancy agreement that any change to utility supplier can only happen with the written consent of the landlord.To the OP, whilst not the best situation (IANAL) it's unlikely you would have any chance of claiming consequential losses. You actually seem to have negotiated the best compromise. You can check the meters and top up as required and request a change to post-paid.
Would I want to rent form your landlord? Probably not. See out your AST and move on asap. BTW, I don't use agents and rent direct so this situation would never arise
Edited by caiss4 on Wednesday 7th March 22:08
caiss4 said:
Er, possibly but as a landlord I have it written in to the tenancy agreement that any change to utility supplier can only happen with the written consent of the landlord.
Doesnt matter... clearly classes an an unfair term unless it's a rare case of utilities included.Edited by Black_S3 on Wednesday 7th March 21:58
Black_S3 said:
Doesnt matter... clearly classes an an unfair term unless it's a rare case of utilities included.
Tell me why it's an unfair term? The term merely requires the tenant to obtain written permission to change supplier (which would not be unreasonably refused).Edited by Black_S3 on Wednesday 7th March 21:58
In this case it looks like the previous tenants changed supplier/billing without consent and/or the letting agents couldn't give a s**t, but I can guarantee there'll be a clause stating consent was required.
Black_S3 said:
'If you rent your homeYou don’t need your landlord's permission to change your meter.
Your landlord can make you change it back when you move out. If you refuse to change it back they could keep some of your deposit.
You’ll have to pay any fee that’s charged by the supplier for changing the meter.'
Thanks for that. The very reason I have a clause requiring my written consent to change of supplier/metering is to make sure the tenant realises there could be a financial consequence at the end of the tenancy. I re-iterate a request to change would not be denied unreasonably.
caiss4 said:
Black_S3 said:
'If you rent your homeYou don’t need your landlord's permission to change your meter.
Your landlord can make you change it back when you move out. If you refuse to change it back they could keep some of your deposit.
You’ll have to pay any fee that’s charged by the supplier for changing the meter.'
Thanks for that. The very reason I have a clause requiring my written consent to change of supplier/metering is to make sure the tenant realises there could be a financial consequence at the end of the tenancy. I re-iterate a request to change would not be denied unreasonably.
Although the Electricity Act allows for customers to supply their own (approved) meter, it is uncommon in domestic properties.
Have you done so? If not, and that is your stated reason you're going the wrong way about it.
Whether you would not deny consent unreasonably is irelevant. If you don't own the meter (see below) you have no power to prevent a change.
What you can do is write the contract to make it a condition that you are informed thereof and make the tenant responsible for changing it back.
If you end up having to do so and incur a cost then, as said above, that would be grounds for a deduction from the deposit..
Although the meter may be in/on your property it is unlikely that you own it.
It will almost certainly belong to the regional network operator or utility company.
https://www.energy-uk.org.uk/customers/how-to-swit...
In such cases the utility company exercises control up to and including the meter.
The customer's responsibilities begin after the meter output tags.
If the tenant is responsible under the contract for paying for their utilities you are not a party to their contract with the supplier.
Bear in mind also that the utility company can unilaterally change the meter to a pre-payment type if a customer is in debt.
It can also make it a condition of supply in the first place if a new tenant has a dodgy credit record.
You can do nothing to prevent the utility company exercising its statutory powers.
surveyor_101 said:
Sounds like the last tenant didn’t get a decent check out and they missed the prepay meter or their tenancy doesn’t reflect the property they have let you. This is a standard clause of properties already fitting with a credit meter but the agent has dropped the ball here.
Shelter are good for this sort of thing and free.
But I have experience of this.
I would state that the tenancy states it’s a credit meter and you would of not let the property on the basis it’s was prepayment. State you feel the landlord has breached the Tenancy.
Unfortunately I have come across agents who think that most people ignorant of these things and can bluff. I have approached ARLA to report illegal activity of A letting and they care not.
It's already been mentioned that Davi has had his rent refunded, and also that it seems he is preparing a consequential loss claim. If it was me I wouldn't waste any time going down that road. Those "losses/damages" weren't foreseeable by the landlord, and are too remote. In addition one might suggest that signing the tenancy and expecting to move in and start your new trading ventures immediately all on the same day, without any buffer, could indicate lack of planning or forethought by Davi.Shelter are good for this sort of thing and free.
But I have experience of this.
I would state that the tenancy states it’s a credit meter and you would of not let the property on the basis it’s was prepayment. State you feel the landlord has breached the Tenancy.
Unfortunately I have come across agents who think that most people ignorant of these things and can bluff. I have approached ARLA to report illegal activity of A letting and they care not.
Edited by surveyor_101 on Wednesday 7th March 21:16
caiss4 said:
Black_S3 said:
'If you rent your homeYou don’t need your landlord's permission to change your meter.
Your landlord can make you change it back when you move out. If you refuse to change it back they could keep some of your deposit.
You’ll have to pay any fee that’s charged by the supplier for changing the meter.'
Thanks for that. The very reason I have a clause requiring my written consent to change of supplier/metering is to make sure the tenant realises there could be a financial consequence at the end of the tenancy. I re-iterate a request to change would not be denied unreasonably.
[quote]In addition one might suggest that signing the tenancy and expecting to move in and start your new trading ventures immediately all on the same day, without any buffer, could indicate lack of planning or forethought by Davi.
[/quote]
I didn’t intend to do it all in one day, we left a week buffer, it took near two weeks to have supply restored fully. When we were searching the first thing the agents were made aware of was my wife’s contract start date, the property selection offered to us was based on it being ready to move into on the 21st to allow us a week to overcome any hurdles. I cleared all client work that involved appointments for that week as well. I don’t think it’s unreasonale to expect a rental property to have electric and gas supply from the first day of tenancy surely? If it was a minor issue I’d not have taken such issue with it but surely working utilities is a fairly basic requirement of a property. The second issue is the total lack of support. Rather than say ‘sorry we will get that sorted as quickly as we can’ they have me the number for the supplier and suggested I give them a call.
[/quote]
I didn’t intend to do it all in one day, we left a week buffer, it took near two weeks to have supply restored fully. When we were searching the first thing the agents were made aware of was my wife’s contract start date, the property selection offered to us was based on it being ready to move into on the 21st to allow us a week to overcome any hurdles. I cleared all client work that involved appointments for that week as well. I don’t think it’s unreasonale to expect a rental property to have electric and gas supply from the first day of tenancy surely? If it was a minor issue I’d not have taken such issue with it but surely working utilities is a fairly basic requirement of a property. The second issue is the total lack of support. Rather than say ‘sorry we will get that sorted as quickly as we can’ they have me the number for the supplier and suggested I give them a call.
Davi said:
I didn’t intend to do it all in one day, we left a week buffer, it took near two weeks to have supply restored fully. When we were searching the first thing the agents were made aware of was my wife’s contract start date, the property selection offered to us was based on it being ready to move into on the 21st to allow us a week to overcome any hurdles. I cleared all client work that involved appointments for that week as well. I don’t think it’s unreasonale to expect a rental property to have electric and gas supply from the first day of tenancy surely? If it was a minor issue I’d not have taken such issue with it but surely working utilities is a fairly basic requirement of a property. The second issue is the total lack of support. Rather than say ‘sorry we will get that sorted as quickly as we can’ they have me the number for the supplier and suggested I give them a call.
I would ask for a rent reduction for the period the property was without heating and power as you could no reasomably use it. These are the only costs you will get back.Get the agent to chnage the meters asap.
Forums | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff