Cyclists, flashing lights, epilepsy.
Discussion
shovelheadrob said:
Before news item is broadcast we get a warning "may contain flash photography" but there are some pretty serious strobe lights on bikes these days.
Discuss.
If you're thinking of the effect on drivers who may be susceptible, then there's nothing to discuss.Discuss.
https://www.gov.uk/epilepsy-and-driving
TooMany2cvs said:
If you're thinking of the effect on drivers who may be susceptible, then there's nothing to discuss.
https://www.gov.uk/epilepsy-and-driving
Passengers?https://www.gov.uk/epilepsy-and-driving
TooMany2cvs said:
shovelheadrob said:
Before news item is broadcast we get a warning "may contain flash photography" but there are some pretty serious strobe lights on bikes these days.
Discuss.
If you're thinking of the effect on drivers who may be susceptible, then there's nothing to discuss.Discuss.
https://www.gov.uk/epilepsy-and-driving
About 1 in 102 people will experience epilepsy, and of these, 3 in 100 will be effected by photosensitivity.
shovelheadrob said:
Before news item is broadcast we get a warning "may contain flash photography" but there are some pretty serious strobe lights on bikes these days.
Discuss.
If you have photosensitive epilepsy (that is, flashing lights can trigger a seizure) and you are not controlled by medication, so have had a seizure in the last 12 months, then you will not have a driving licence.Discuss.
Bicycle lights are not allowed to flash at a higher frequency than 4Hz in the UK. Most photosensitive epilepsy triggers are in the range of 16 - 25Hz, so not an issue. That's not to say it wouldn't affect a few though.
Interesting, I wasn't thinking of drivers, more anyone else that could be affected. Thought was inspired by one I saw this morning that emitted what I can only describe as similar to short bursts of automatic gunfire, around 20 pulses in 0.5 sec every other second, very bright & very annoying.
shovelheadrob said:
Interesting, I wasn't thinking of drivers, more anyone else that could be affected. Thought was inspired by one I saw this morning that emitted what I can only describe as similar to short bursts of automatic gunfire, around 20 pulses in 0.5 sec every other second, very bright & very annoying.
A 40Hz flash would be like an annoyingly flickering lighting tube. It would appear almost constant.shovelheadrob said:
around 20 pulses in 0.5 sec every other second, very bright & very annoying.
If it really was 20 pulses in 0.5 seconds then it would be a risk to someone with photosensitive epilepsy.gazza285 said:
So are they a danger to epileptics or not?
If made within UK/EU law/regulations (not sure which it is) then no they are not.gazza285 said:
quite frankly, if this is all you have to worry about, then you must have a pretty good life.
Or, they have a life where every moment of every day is defined by their epilepsy, as many are? Particularly when someone either makes or imports some crap like the described light without any consideration to others, cos, well if that's all someone has to worry about.. etc.Pica-Pica said:
About 1 in 102 people will experience epilepsy, and of these, 3 in 100 will be effected by photosensitivity.
It's this information which has always made me think why even bother with the warnings on a news programme as it affects so few people and of that tiny number I'm pretty sure they'll already know that watching the news may have flashing photography. It's just something that happens because it's always happened and no one questions it.
gazza285 said:
............ and quite frankly, if this is all you have to worry about, then you must have a pretty good life.
Have you ever had an epilectic fit?A few years ago my sister was walking on the pavement along a busy road when she had an epilectic fit. She fell into the road and was very very nearly run over by a lorry. Nothing did hit her and she was very lucky as it could so easily have beeen fatal.
OK, so it wasn't caused by flashing lights but it does show how dangerous epilepsy can be. To just dismiss it as "if this is all you have to worry about" is a pretty disgusting attitude.
I don't know if flashing bike lights could cause a fit but I do think it is a very good question that should be discussed scientifically and not dissmissed so lightly by keyboard warriors with no idea what they are talking about. ("RM" seems to be one of the few posters who does know what he's is talking about.)
I have had cause to install orange beacons on my vehicles before - roof, windscreen and rear window (working in the side of the road) and when purchasing noted that the reputable companies advertise the fact that they comply to ECE R65 limit/reduce the chance of epileptic seizures.... wonder how many of the eBay/Allibaba sourced ones do - this will be the same for the cyclists lights as well if sourced badly.
Flash rates over 10Hz have been shown to increase glare and can also increase the
risk of epileptic response. Alternating beacons (right and then left) at 1-3Hz increases
the conspicuity of the vehicle without an increase in glare or increasing the risk of an
epileptic response.
Flash rates over 10Hz have been shown to increase glare and can also increase the
risk of epileptic response. Alternating beacons (right and then left) at 1-3Hz increases
the conspicuity of the vehicle without an increase in glare or increasing the risk of an
epileptic response.
I think the OP's question should have been can these lights affect people who don;t suffer from epilepsy. I sat behind a cyclist who had three, extremely bright, red flashing lights, arranged in a triangle on the back of his bike - one on the saddle and two at hub height. They flashed completely out of synch.
After a few seconds, I found the effect extremely unpleasant and unsettling and had to pull over for a few seconds after the lights changed. I have no history of epilepsy, nor am I normally affected by any amount of flashing lights. My thought at the time was that this arrangement could cause problems for anyone, be they a driver, a passenger or a pedestrian.
After a few seconds, I found the effect extremely unpleasant and unsettling and had to pull over for a few seconds after the lights changed. I have no history of epilepsy, nor am I normally affected by any amount of flashing lights. My thought at the time was that this arrangement could cause problems for anyone, be they a driver, a passenger or a pedestrian.
I had a look here...
https://www.epilepsy.org.uk/info/photosensitive-ep...
Christmas tree lights are more likely to trigger a seizure than a cycle light, and so are some types of wall paper, but that doesn't fit the anti cyclist agenda so many seem to have on here.
A few years ago my sister was walking on the pavement along a busy road when she had an epilectic fit. She fell into the road and was very very nearly run over by a lorry. Nothing did hit her and she was very lucky as it could so easily have beeen fatal.
OK, so it wasn't caused by flashing lights but it does show how dangerous epilepsy can be. To just dismiss it as "if this is all you have to worry about" is a pretty disgusting attitude.
I don't know if flashing bike lights could cause a fit but I do think it is a very good question that should be discussed scientifically and not dissmissed so lightly by keyboard warriors with no idea what they are talking about. ("RM" seems to be one of the few posters who does know what he's is talking about.)Have I in any way said epilepsy wasn't dangerous? Show me one incidence of a cycle light causing an epileptic fit and I'll agree with your concerns, because I can't find any hard evidence of them being a danger. Get down off your high horse and direct you ire to the real dangers to a photosensitive epileptic such as those listed in the link to the British Epilepsy Association webpage, unless you think they are a bunch of keyboard warriors with no idea what they are talking about as well...
https://www.epilepsy.org.uk/info/photosensitive-ep...
Christmas tree lights are more likely to trigger a seizure than a cycle light, and so are some types of wall paper, but that doesn't fit the anti cyclist agenda so many seem to have on here.
NGee said:
gazza285 said:
............ and quite frankly, if this is all you have to worry about, then you must have a pretty good life.
Have you ever had an epilectic fit?A few years ago my sister was walking on the pavement along a busy road when she had an epilectic fit. She fell into the road and was very very nearly run over by a lorry. Nothing did hit her and she was very lucky as it could so easily have beeen fatal.
OK, so it wasn't caused by flashing lights but it does show how dangerous epilepsy can be. To just dismiss it as "if this is all you have to worry about" is a pretty disgusting attitude.
I don't know if flashing bike lights could cause a fit but I do think it is a very good question that should be discussed scientifically and not dissmissed so lightly by keyboard warriors with no idea what they are talking about. ("RM" seems to be one of the few posters who does know what he's is talking about.)
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