Council tax banding & valuation tribunal.
Discussion
Not sure if this is the correct place or it should be the Homes section
We purchased a new build last year fully expecting the council tax to go up & it did, which we expected to a band D. Out of the blue we received notification a couple of months later, the VOA changed their mind and the revised valuation and placed the property in band E. I didn't agree with this although I accept the properties value is within a couple of thousand of the band boundaries.
Essentially, my argument was that the larger 4 bed properties on our development that are 90-100k more & have 40m2 floor space have also been banned "E' yet an identical property to mine in terms of floor space/bedrooms & bathrooms, costing the same purchase value as ours has been placed in band C. The difference being this property is semi-detached not detached like ours. This would make its value some 20k less when back-calculating the banding
I have appealed twice & had it rejected both times and next month will be going to a valuation tribunal for them to arbitrate/decide the final outcome of the banding.
I don't have a clue how to go about presenting at the tribunal and was wondering if anybody has any experience of this or knows/can recommend a company/solicitor that deals with this area, that can represent me to ensure all the details are presented and my argument is valid. I might have to throw a few quid at it but long term it will be worth it as the higher banding is another £400/yr!
Obviously, the listings officer will have done this many times & what I don't want to happen is to fail and get stuck with the higher banding simply because I did not present my evidence in the correct way or missed something.
Thanks in advance
We purchased a new build last year fully expecting the council tax to go up & it did, which we expected to a band D. Out of the blue we received notification a couple of months later, the VOA changed their mind and the revised valuation and placed the property in band E. I didn't agree with this although I accept the properties value is within a couple of thousand of the band boundaries.
Essentially, my argument was that the larger 4 bed properties on our development that are 90-100k more & have 40m2 floor space have also been banned "E' yet an identical property to mine in terms of floor space/bedrooms & bathrooms, costing the same purchase value as ours has been placed in band C. The difference being this property is semi-detached not detached like ours. This would make its value some 20k less when back-calculating the banding
I have appealed twice & had it rejected both times and next month will be going to a valuation tribunal for them to arbitrate/decide the final outcome of the banding.
I don't have a clue how to go about presenting at the tribunal and was wondering if anybody has any experience of this or knows/can recommend a company/solicitor that deals with this area, that can represent me to ensure all the details are presented and my argument is valid. I might have to throw a few quid at it but long term it will be worth it as the higher banding is another £400/yr!
Obviously, the listings officer will have done this many times & what I don't want to happen is to fail and get stuck with the higher banding simply because I did not present my evidence in the correct way or missed something.
Thanks in advance
England? So it's nominal 1991 values that are relevant. C = £52-68k, D = £68-88k, E = £88-120k
So E is a much wider band compared to D. If the semis in C are said to have been worth just under £68k, it's not hard to see how a detached might be seen to have been a bit over £88k - which then puts them in the same band as places just under £120k. The back-calculating of values is well established, and there's not going to be much argument over how they've done that.
When we moved here, the place had an improvement index flag. The VOA put it up... I thought that unfair, again comparing to neighbours, and appealed it. They came back with full details of the comparables they'd used, and how they back-calculated - and it was absolutely fair. Then I found out this place had sold within a month or two of the nominal date, for just under the upper end of the old band, before the big extension that triggered the flag...
So E is a much wider band compared to D. If the semis in C are said to have been worth just under £68k, it's not hard to see how a detached might be seen to have been a bit over £88k - which then puts them in the same band as places just under £120k. The back-calculating of values is well established, and there's not going to be much argument over how they've done that.
When we moved here, the place had an improvement index flag. The VOA put it up... I thought that unfair, again comparing to neighbours, and appealed it. They came back with full details of the comparables they'd used, and how they back-calculated - and it was absolutely fair. Then I found out this place had sold within a month or two of the nominal date, for just under the upper end of the old band, before the big extension that triggered the flag...
good luck, i gave up at the stage you are at now, they literally pluck the figures out of their arses.
From what i worked out a lot of properties where undervalued when they did a massive panic valuation back when they introduced council tax (end of maggie and the poll tax days). The formula in its self is bonkers, basing it on what a house might have been worth many years ago is crazy, how much would a Bugati Veyron have sold for in 1988 ? who knows.
I'm in band E in a 2 bed detached, Mate up the road is in a 3 bed Grade 2 listed, with a garden 7 times as big as mine and a double garage and hes in band D . My guess is they will say yours is correctly banded and your examples got lucky and might at some point in the future be re banded if something changes. Is yours a bit of a one off house ? Mine is and that doesn't help as your normal estate type house all built the same seem to get much lower bandings
From what i worked out a lot of properties where undervalued when they did a massive panic valuation back when they introduced council tax (end of maggie and the poll tax days). The formula in its self is bonkers, basing it on what a house might have been worth many years ago is crazy, how much would a Bugati Veyron have sold for in 1988 ? who knows.
I'm in band E in a 2 bed detached, Mate up the road is in a 3 bed Grade 2 listed, with a garden 7 times as big as mine and a double garage and hes in band D . My guess is they will say yours is correctly banded and your examples got lucky and might at some point in the future be re banded if something changes. Is yours a bit of a one off house ? Mine is and that doesn't help as your normal estate type house all built the same seem to get much lower bandings
matjk said:
good luck, i gave up at the stage you are at now, they literally pluck the figures out of their arses.
From what i worked out a lot of properties where undervalued when they did a massive panic valuation back when they introduced council tax (end of maggie and the poll tax days). The formula in its self is bonkers, basing it on what a house might have been worth many years ago is crazy, how much would a Bugati Veyron have sold for in 1988 ? who knows.
I'm in band E in a 2 bed detached, Mate up the road is in a 3 bed Grade 2 listed, with a garden 7 times as big as mine and a double garage and hes in band D . My guess is they will say yours is correctly banded and your examples got lucky and might at some point in the future be re banded if something changes. Is yours a bit of a one off house ? Mine is and that doesn't help as your normal estate type house all built the same seem to get much lower bandings
The house they 'banded' as D was a 4 bed two bath as justification as to why mine was 'E' is actually 20m2 larger. I maintain they got the footprint of our property wrong. They are quoting it as 124m2 our EPC shows it as 105m2, I hope this makes a difference.From what i worked out a lot of properties where undervalued when they did a massive panic valuation back when they introduced council tax (end of maggie and the poll tax days). The formula in its self is bonkers, basing it on what a house might have been worth many years ago is crazy, how much would a Bugati Veyron have sold for in 1988 ? who knows.
I'm in band E in a 2 bed detached, Mate up the road is in a 3 bed Grade 2 listed, with a garden 7 times as big as mine and a double garage and hes in band D . My guess is they will say yours is correctly banded and your examples got lucky and might at some point in the future be re banded if something changes. Is yours a bit of a one off house ? Mine is and that doesn't help as your normal estate type house all built the same seem to get much lower bandings
I don't think they consider garden & garage just floor space and rooms. In phase 1 of the development, we are the only detached version of the house they are selling, the other 4 are semi's and the rest are the big bad boys that I was too tight to spunk another 100k on.
Flumpo said:
Hi, can I ask why you expected the band to go up? Is that something that happens with new builds?
Old house was a band B, new house we had calculated to be D which is was for 4 months I have the docs from the CT office. Then they changed their minds and said E..... now pay us another £400/hrI have not been to VT in many years. It might be worth putting a post up in the business section - at least one member (chrisgr13) is a rating surveyor.
My experience is the panels were idiots who as soon as it got complicated just took the VO’s argument. Or maybe I was just crap at presenting...
My experience is the panels were idiots who as soon as it got complicated just took the VO’s argument. Or maybe I was just crap at presenting...
They do seem to hammer detached houses, big 5 bed semi = small 2 bed detached ! It’s really hard to argue because nothing with it is black and white, if it was done on current property value then it would simply be a case of checking with land reg , I gave them examples of much larger detached bungalows on a way more expensive road and they just argued it might be lower than mine because when it was valued it might have been in a bad state of repair! What figure do you get if you work back from what you paid for it to 1988 using a house price information calculator?
Sorry it’s 1991 ! But I just tried my figures on the nationwide calcutor and a house in my area the cost £88k would cost £320k now and mine is worth over 400k now ! So banged to rights ! Mates house is worth over £550k he’s in a band under me 
So basically your probably in the right band and the other examples your using are to low! They don’t care about houses that are banned to low, none of your business ! Bit like getting nicked for speeding doing 34mph and everyone else is doing 50, not fair but there you go
So basically your probably in the right band and the other examples your using are to low! They don’t care about houses that are banned to low, none of your business ! Bit like getting nicked for speeding doing 34mph and everyone else is doing 50, not fair but there you go
surveyor said:
I have not been to VT in many years. It might be worth putting a post up in the business section - at least one member (chrisgr13) is a rating surveyor.
My experience is the panels were idiots who as soon as it got complicated just took the VO’s argument. Or maybe I was just crap at presenting...
Meanders in as I am here as well!My experience is the panels were idiots who as soon as it got complicated just took the VO’s argument. Or maybe I was just crap at presenting...
It is almost certainly not worth getting someone in to represent you. As an unrepresented council tax payer the Tribunal will be on your side from the start. Its a very informal process. In previous years the council taxpayers and rating appeals were heard in the same Tribunal, and council tax went first. This meant the council tax payer was presenting with a bunch of experts sitting behind them! I dont think this happens anymore. Certainly the recent rating tribunals I have been to in London there has been a seperate council tax tribunal in a different room.
The trick is to be prepared, write what you are going to say and read it. Dont forget to tell them what banding you require, and also dont ask for something that is clearly unattainable.
Broadly speaking you are heading along the right route, ensure you have a look at all the comparables and come up with reasons as to why they are or are not comparable, which you have done. So just expand on what you have done already.
I think all you need to do is expand on what you have done already. Certainly if the VO has the floor area wrong then you have a great start. However you probably need to check the basis of measurement. I think it might be gross external but cannot find confirmation on the VO website.
Keep going and stick to ypur guns if you think you have a valid case. The VO might agree to settle before the hearing.
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