Roundabout - was this wrong?
Discussion
Yesterday, I was entering this roundabout from Reeves Way, indicating right, to exit on Thanet Way.
Thanet Way is the name of the road going from right to left and left to right - both sides of the roundabout. Short section of dual carraigeway to the right side of the photo - not to left
I moved off, and was watching the traffic queuing on my left, 2 lanes coming from Thanet Way.
As I reached the 'island' on my immediate left, a car coming from Thanet Way moved off and entered the roundabout ahead of me.
I'd observed the same car waiting to enter.
I couldn't see which way this car was intending to go because I couldn't see its left indicator - only its right indicators were visible. It was in a line to go left or straight over. The driver of that car could have seen that I was indicating right.
Anyway, I braked thinking he was going to go straight over and into my exit lane but he didn't he turned left.
Should he have entered the roundabout when, although he knew he was going left - I didn't know where he was going!
I've entered the same roundabout from where he was and it is tempting to take off when turning left if you see a car indicating right but it always seems a bit iffy to me.
What's best practice in this situation?
Edited by irememberyou on Friday 6th April 11:50
Two-lane r'a'b, and you were in L2, entering at 6 o'c and going round to 3 o'c.
A car entered the r'a'b into L1 at that 9 o'c entrance, and immediately turned off at the 12 o'c exit.
Not seeing any real issue, tbh. You should be starting to indicate left and move to L1 as you pass that 12 o'c exit.
A car entered the r'a'b into L1 at that 9 o'c entrance, and immediately turned off at the 12 o'c exit.
Not seeing any real issue, tbh. You should be starting to indicate left and move to L1 as you pass that 12 o'c exit.
irememberyou said:
Should he have entered the roundabout when, although he knew he was going left - I didn't know where he was going!
I've entered the same roundabout from where he was and it is tempting to take off when turning left if you see a car indicating right but it always seems a bit iffy to me.
If I understand what you've said correctly, I think if the other driver wanted to avoid any risk whatsoever then he shouldn't have. I've entered the same roundabout from where he was and it is tempting to take off when turning left if you see a car indicating right but it always seems a bit iffy to me.
If, although indicating right, you were taking the same exit as him, what would have happened? As I interpret it he has made his move on the assumption that you are driving correctly and will continue to do so. That is generally a dangerous assumption to make of any other road user, but one most people make and get away with most of the time.
TooMany2cvs said:
Two-lane r'a'b, and you were in L2, entering at 6 o'c and going round to 3 o'c.
A car entered the r'a'b into L1 at that 9 o'c entrance, and immediately turned off at the 12 o'c exit.
Not seeing any real issue, tbh. You should be starting to indicate left and move to L1 as you pass that 12 o'c exit.
Exactly this, there's no reason for your paths to meet, therefore the other car was correct in his decision.A car entered the r'a'b into L1 at that 9 o'c entrance, and immediately turned off at the 12 o'c exit.
Not seeing any real issue, tbh. You should be starting to indicate left and move to L1 as you pass that 12 o'c exit.
you need to explain better, with fuller description of entrances, exits etc. E.g. North South East West.
I have re-read it now. If there was space for two on the roundabout at that point, and you were fully to the right and indicating right up to that point, then no, I see no real issue. I have done it, and had it done to me many a time.
Hint, especially at roundabouts, look at the angle of turn on the front wheels, a much better indication than...er, indicators.
I have re-read it now. If there was space for two on the roundabout at that point, and you were fully to the right and indicating right up to that point, then no, I see no real issue. I have done it, and had it done to me many a time.
Hint, especially at roundabouts, look at the angle of turn on the front wheels, a much better indication than...er, indicators.
Edited by Pica-Pica on Friday 6th April 12:10
shakotan said:
TooMany2cvs said:
Two-lane r'a'b, and you were in L2, entering at 6 o'c and going round to 3 o'c.
A car entered the r'a'b into L1 at that 9 o'c entrance, and immediately turned off at the 12 o'c exit.
Not seeing any real issue, tbh. You should be starting to indicate left and move to L1 as you pass that 12 o'c exit.
Exactly this, there's no reason for your paths to meet, therefore the other car was correct in his decision.A car entered the r'a'b into L1 at that 9 o'c entrance, and immediately turned off at the 12 o'c exit.
Not seeing any real issue, tbh. You should be starting to indicate left and move to L1 as you pass that 12 o'c exit.
It's poor practice to take this kind of liberty in my opinion. It certainly isn't what you're taught to do when learning, and it isn't provided for (as far as I am aware) in the highway code.
It may occasionally be forgiveable on a large, lane controlled roundabout where there is no potential for confusion, but apparently this wasn't the case in the OP.
Bennet said:
shakotan said:
TooMany2cvs said:
Two-lane r'a'b, and you were in L2, entering at 6 o'c and going round to 3 o'c.
A car entered the r'a'b into L1 at that 9 o'c entrance, and immediately turned off at the 12 o'c exit.
Not seeing any real issue, tbh. You should be starting to indicate left and move to L1 as you pass that 12 o'c exit.
Exactly this, there's no reason for your paths to meet, therefore the other car was correct in his decision.A car entered the r'a'b into L1 at that 9 o'c entrance, and immediately turned off at the 12 o'c exit.
Not seeing any real issue, tbh. You should be starting to indicate left and move to L1 as you pass that 12 o'c exit.
It's poor practice to take this kind of liberty in my opinion. It certainly isn't what you're taught to do when learning, and it isn't provided for (as far as I am aware) in the highway code.
It may occasionally be forgiveable on a large, lane controlled roundabout where there is no potential for confusion, but apparently this wasn't the case in the OP.
Pica-Pica said:
you need to explain better, with fuller description of entrances, exits etc. E.g. North South East West.
I have re-read it now. If there was space for two on the roundabout at that point, and you were fully to the right and indicating right up to that point, then no, I see no real issue. I have done it, and had it done to me many a time.
Hint, especially at roundabouts, look at the angle of turn on the front wheels, a much better indication than...er, indicators.
Okay. I was going south to north east.I have re-read it now. If there was space for two on the roundabout at that point, and you were fully to the right and indicating right up to that point, then no, I see no real issue. I have done it, and had it done to me many a time.
Hint, especially at roundabouts, look at the angle of turn on the front wheels, a much better indication than...er, indicators.
Edited by Pica-Pica on Friday 6th April 12:10
It was impossible to tell where the other car was going because I couldn't see his indicators and his wheels would have been pointed in the same direction for either a left turn or a straight ahead. The left turn (north for me) requires him to go forward before he can turn left.
My only issue was that he created 'alarm' because he entered the roundabout and 'could' have been about to cross my path and I could not tell what his intentions were.
Perhaps he just should have been faster and moved before I reached the midway point.
I think the issue is probably the lack of lane markings on the roundabout. If there are two lanes coming into it and going off of it, it should have two lanes.
In that case, it would be obvious. A car approaching from the left in the left lane is going straight on or left, and will continue round the roundabout in the left lane, so a car in the right lane on the roundabout doesn't need to worry about it.
In that case, it would be obvious. A car approaching from the left in the left lane is going straight on or left, and will continue round the roundabout in the left lane, so a car in the right lane on the roundabout doesn't need to worry about it.
Bennet said:
I disagree. It causes unecessary confusion and alarm to the driver already on the roundabout. The joining car is not invisible, and the established driver doesn't know his intentions. It can often appear as if the joining driver simply hasn't seen the established one.
It's poor practice to take this kind of liberty in my opinion. It certainly isn't what you're taught to do when learning, and it isn't provided for (as far as I am aware) in the highway code.
It may occasionally be forgiveable on a large, lane controlled roundabout where there is no potential for confusion, but apparently this wasn't the case in the OP.
That's exactly it.It's poor practice to take this kind of liberty in my opinion. It certainly isn't what you're taught to do when learning, and it isn't provided for (as far as I am aware) in the highway code.
It may occasionally be forgiveable on a large, lane controlled roundabout where there is no potential for confusion, but apparently this wasn't the case in the OP.
I couldn't read his intentions and had to assume he was going to cut across me and so I braked causing alram no doubt, to the driver behind me.
It was interesting because previously I've done exactly what he did from his lane before and not realised quite how alarming it is!
A lot of it is to do with the angles and visibility on that roundabout. It's not a circle in the centre of 4 roads equally spaced and from where he was it can seem as if you're waiting a long time for the cars to come around. The other/opposite entrance from Thanet Way is obscured from him so he can't tell when cars entering from Reeves Way are likely to move.
Taught me a lesson about entering that roundabout anyway from his position and how it might appear to other drivers.
Pica-Pica said:
I disagree with your disagreement. If the OP's car is far enough to the right, hugging the centre, then a short left turn is not going to cause any degree of consternation. By the time the other car has moved, its turn left will be abundantly clear.
(Shrugs)Without a video, these kinds of threads are a bit like asking everyone to imagine a fence painted yellow, and asking for everyone's opinion on whether or not it looks too yellow.
Pica-Pica said:
If other cars have to 'give way to vehicles on the roundabout', i.e. wait until there is no-one visible on that roundabout, the whole country will be grid-locked.
Other cars definitely do have to give way to vehicles already on the roundabout, but that doesn't mean waiting until no one is visible on it, provided they get on with it and get out of the way (as we all know.)I think you have to be really careful using "well if I don't break this rule, I will be waiting here all day". All manner of white-van man style t
ttery is justified using that lazy, self serving logic, and it really is not true.Anyway, I'm not seriously suggesting that you personally drive like a t
t. You're probably envisaging a differnt version of the scenario than I am.Pica-Pica said:
OP, where is this? The road names sound like Whitstable. I have looked at google earth and street view, the roundabout seems wide enough for what I have stated.
Whitstable - that's right. My own conclusion is the other driver waited too long to move. He saw me coming long before I reached the mid-point of the roundabout but that's when he chose to set off.
All made me think he hadn't seen me so I braked and so anyone behind me had to brake.
I suppose I'm just saying if you're going to go out on a roundabout when there's already a car on it - then you'd better be a bit quicker about it.
There's no way for cars coming from my direction to tell what cars coming from his direction are going to do. It's impossible to see their indicators and they have to go forward onto the roundabout before they would turn their wheels.
In the past, I've done what he did from his position. Seeing it done badly just made me appreciate the importance of doing it right.
shakotan said:
TooMany2cvs said:
Two-lane r'a'b, and you were in L2, entering at 6 o'c and going round to 3 o'c.
A car entered the r'a'b into L1 at that 9 o'c entrance, and immediately turned off at the 12 o'c exit.
Not seeing any real issue, tbh. You should be starting to indicate left and move to L1 as you pass that 12 o'c exit.
Exactly this, there's no reason for your paths to meet, therefore the other car was correct in his decision.A car entered the r'a'b into L1 at that 9 o'c entrance, and immediately turned off at the 12 o'c exit.
Not seeing any real issue, tbh. You should be starting to indicate left and move to L1 as you pass that 12 o'c exit.
SturdyHSV said:
irememberyou said:
Should he have entered the roundabout when, although he knew he was going left - I didn't know where he was going!
I've entered the same roundabout from where he was and it is tempting to take off when turning left if you see a car indicating right but it always seems a bit iffy to me.
If I understand what you've said correctly, I think if the other driver wanted to avoid any risk whatsoever then he shouldn't have. I've entered the same roundabout from where he was and it is tempting to take off when turning left if you see a car indicating right but it always seems a bit iffy to me.
If, although indicating right, you were taking the same exit as him, what would have happened? As I interpret it he has made his move on the assumption that you are driving correctly and will continue to do so. That is generally a dangerous assumption to make of any other road user, but one most people make and get away with most of the time.
Having had enough experience of people not only doung what I don't expect but also not doing what they're indicating to do, I thought the other driver took too much of a gamble on my ability to see and avoid him and go where I indicated I was going. Because I had no idea where he was going.
Pica-Pica said:
I disagree with your disagreement. If the OP's car is far enough to the right, hugging the centre, then a short left turn is not going to cause any degree of consternation. By the time the other car has moved, its turn left will be abundantly clear. If other cars have to 'give way to vehicles on the roundabout', i.e. wait until there is no-one visible on that roundabout, the whole country will be grid-locked.
I disagree with your disagreement to his disagreement. If I lived by that assumption (that everyone already on a roundabout was actually going to do what their indicators and lane choice suggested they were going to do) I'd be on my 4th or 5th replacement driver's door by now. That said, a healthy proportion of my driving happens in Cambridge, where people are generally of the opinion that a car exists simply to be crashed into and slowly destroyed by everything else on the road, often including the road itself. It is a strange little bubble of generally apalling driving standards.
Sargeant Orange said:
Unless he's seen you emerge from Reeves way indicating right, how did he know you hadn't come from the east entrance and were heading north (his exit)
Fair point. There was another vehicle in the lane next to him (on his right).From his position, if he was looking, and there's no obstruction, he should be able to see the cars entering from Reeves Way (but not from Thanet Way - East).
It can seem a bit further away that it actually is and the cars certainly do come fast. perhaps it's some trick of bend or slope.
And yes, you have to be looking in the first place.
Pica-Pica said:
OP, where is this? The road names sound like Whitstable.
Close, but no cigar. 
There is a rather obvious clue in the diagram/Google Satellite View. Where it says Chestfield Medical Ce.
It's the western one of the pair of roundabouts just south of Chestfield and Swaleclffe Station.
https://goo.gl/maps/6cQa2xkiqDS2
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