What would police do if unable to identify prisoner?
Discussion
Having read the thread where people claim to take some major risks trying set records from Land's End to John o' Groats, what would happen in the following scenario?
You completely remove all identifying information from your vehicle.
You carry no ID of any form.
You are pulled over after doing over 180mph on a quiet motorway.
You are polite and affable with the police, but decline to identify yourself.
How far would they go in order to work out who you are? What methods would they try? I assume you would be taken in to custody. If they just could not identify you no matter what they did, what would happen to you? Would they eventually just let you walk away?
You completely remove all identifying information from your vehicle.
You carry no ID of any form.
You are pulled over after doing over 180mph on a quiet motorway.
You are polite and affable with the police, but decline to identify yourself.
How far would they go in order to work out who you are? What methods would they try? I assume you would be taken in to custody. If they just could not identify you no matter what they did, what would happen to you? Would they eventually just let you walk away?
For the purposes of the example given, I wouldn't have thought it matters at all. The important bit is whether they can prove that <person they have> did the crime. What that person's identity is shouldn't really matter for the purposes of establishing guilt and punishment.
Though I'm sure there'd be added penalties for refusing to id oneself.
Though I'm sure there'd be added penalties for refusing to id oneself.
You would be arrested & in all likelihood detained until the Police / courts were satisfied of your identity.
Being unable to establish identity / ascertain an address suitable for the service of summons are one of the criteria for arrest. You also cannot be granted bail until your identity is established and a suitable bail address identified.
So, you would be denied Police bail, taken to the next available court and remanded in custody until granted bail by a court. Not really worth it I would imagine.
Being unable to establish identity / ascertain an address suitable for the service of summons are one of the criteria for arrest. You also cannot be granted bail until your identity is established and a suitable bail address identified.
So, you would be denied Police bail, taken to the next available court and remanded in custody until granted bail by a court. Not really worth it I would imagine.
Bigyoke said:
...until the Police / courts were satisfied of your identity.
Indeed, but supposing they were never able to establish your identity.I'd imagined you couldn't be sentenced without any identity, but perhaps that's naive. I also imagined that for something as "victimless" as exceeding the speed limit on a (let's assume) empty motorway, the resources wouldn't be available to lock you up indefinitely.
Seems amazing you could be imprisoned for x many years, and ultimately released back on to the street, all without anyone ever knowing who you are.
Edited by Bennet on Thursday 12th April 15:43
Bennet said:
Bigyoke said:
...until the Police / courts were satisfied of your identity.
Indeed, but supposing they were never able to establish your identity.I'd imagined you couldn't be sentenced without any identity, but perhaps that's naive. I also imagined that for something as "victimless" as exceeding the speed limit on a (let's assume) empty motorway, the respirces wouldn't be available to lock you up indefinitely.
Seems amazing you could be imprisoned for x many years, and ultimately released back on to the street, all without anyone ever knowing who you are.
They will have your fingerprints & DNA now & a record created for you, any futures will be linked to this originating record. The name on it doesn't matter. You are in the system.
If you commit a hundred further offences in the future under a different name for each they'll be assigned to this original record.
vonhosen said:
I assume you are taking a position that they don't have your fingerprints or DNA prior to this?
They will have your fingerprints & DNA now & a record created for you, any futures will be linked to this originating record. The name on it doesn't matter. You are in the system.
Fair point. Let's assume no previous fingerprints or DNA on file, and no future offences.They will have your fingerprints & DNA now & a record created for you, any futures will be linked to this originating record. The name on it doesn't matter. You are in the system.
Bennet said:
vonhosen said:
I assume you are taking a position that they don't have your fingerprints or DNA prior to this?
They will have your fingerprints & DNA now & a record created for you, any futures will be linked to this originating record. The name on it doesn't matter. You are in the system.
Fair point. Let's assume no previous fingerprints or DNA on file, and no future offences.They will have your fingerprints & DNA now & a record created for you, any futures will be linked to this originating record. The name on it doesn't matter. You are in the system.
Bennet said:
Ultimately it doesn't make a great deal of difference whether thay can identify you or not then.
Fair enough. I was curious. Thanks for the info.
I'll cancel the order for the fighter-jet-style mobile refueling set up.
Some people have given false details for their first offence. Their original record is created adding these false details. When they are arrested a second time, fingerprints/DNA match with those from the first record. The second details (& any subsequent details) become an alias on the original record. The number of the record doesn't change, just the number of names, d.o.b.s, addresses etc get added to that originating record.Fair enough. I was curious. Thanks for the info.
I'll cancel the order for the fighter-jet-style mobile refueling set up.
Your identity/record isn't the names etc you give (they are search strings to it), it's what you can't change (your DNA & the number assigned to it).
Bennet said:
Having read the thread where people claim to take some major risks trying set records from Land's End to John o' Groats, what would happen in the following scenario?
You completely remove all identifying information from your vehicle.
You carry no ID of any form.
You are pulled over after doing over 180mph on a quiet motorway.
You are polite and affable with the police, but decline to identify yourself.
So lemme get this straight...You completely remove all identifying information from your vehicle.
You carry no ID of any form.
You are pulled over after doing over 180mph on a quiet motorway.
You are polite and affable with the police, but decline to identify yourself.
180mph, no plates, VIN and engine number ground off... and you refuse to identify yourself, even when you're in front of the custody sergeant or magistrate?
It happens.
The offender is charged with the offence revealed, printed, photographed and DNAed, taken to court and dealt with.
Mitigation is, some suggest, a waste of time.
If they do not produce a driver's licence and the penalty includes a ban, they are informed they are banned. If they are local, they will be caught again if they do drive. If they don't then no problem.
They will come again, almost certainly.
The offender is charged with the offence revealed, printed, photographed and DNAed, taken to court and dealt with.
Mitigation is, some suggest, a waste of time.
If they do not produce a driver's licence and the penalty includes a ban, they are informed they are banned. If they are local, they will be caught again if they do drive. If they don't then no problem.
They will come again, almost certainly.
this happens quite alot in detention centers, 1st thing they do is eat their passports and say theyre called john smith. still get banged up until the system works out where to send them back to.
once in the system your given a number which stays with you, plenty banged up under alais.
once in the system your given a number which stays with you, plenty banged up under alais.
vonhosen said:
fingerprints
Are fingerprints a direct match nowadays? Honest question, as I was to understand that fingerprints were a somewhat woolly biometric i.e. an expert can only say that "it is likely these prints came from this person", with that likelihood increasing as the number of fingers printed increases. OP, in all seriousness it seems like you might be better off trying a similar challenge in a country you don't care about frequenting in future... Doing this somewhere you want to be able to visit unimpeded in future seems fraught with the potential for disappointment.
Russian Troll Bot said:
Zetec-S said:
Bennet said:
How far would they go in order to work out who you are? What methods would they try?
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